Pat Hedley

3 Ways To Build Life-Long Connections

3 Ways To Build Life-Long Connections

Pat Hedley

Investor, Advisor, and Author

Pat Hedley

Pat is a growth company advisor and investor with more than three decades of global private equity experience. She adores disruptive technology and dynamic management teams who find new ways to address old challenges. Pat is the author of Meet 100 People: A How-To Guide to the Life Edge Everyone Is Missing, a book about the importance of personal networks.

Pat worked as a managing director at General Atlantic (GA) until January 2015, where she spent nearly 30 years in a variety of roles, including over a decade of direct growth investing. Pat also established GA’s global marketing and human capital strategies, as well as the company’s global talent network.

Pat worked for a Bain Capital-backed healthcare firm before joining GA. She had previously worked at Bain & Company as an associate consultant, advising healthcare clients. Ms. Hedley graduated from Dartmouth College with a BA in Computer Science and an MBA from Harvard Business School with a focus on entrepreneurship. Ms. Hedley is a native Hungarian speaker.

Ms. Hedley is the current Chairman of Reach the World, a non-profit that promotes global awareness by using technology to connect student travellers with classrooms.

Take home these learnings:

1) How to stay in touch with people?
2) How to build curiosity in people?
3) What stops people from nurturing their connections?
4) What are the parameters to look for before investing in a relationship?
5) What is the true essence of connection?

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Episode Transcript:

Intro:// I remember my conversation with my father some 8 years back. He said “Gaurav- Take care of your relationships. Be it with your family members, relatives, friends or colleagues, They matter” and today if I reflect on my journey as an Entrepreneur, and a Coach, I can say that with utmost conviction. If there is one thing that matters in life when we are a part of the social system, I would say that’s relationship. Like anything else, it demands some kind of attention to grow an flourish. It demands genuine, forgiveness, kindness and we need to learn how to put the other person before self so that they feel heard, seen and cared. The question is - How can we put the focus light onto others? How can we be an ease to be around and add value? How can we explore a pathway to build life long connections? Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast the xMonks Drive. I am your host Gaurav Arora and our today’s guest is Pat Hedley. Pat is an investor and an advisor to innovative growth companies, an author, a TEDx speaker and someone who's always ready to help you. She's the author of a book called “Meet 100 People, A How to guide to the career and life edge everyone's missing”. She's someone who believes in building and nurturing connections by proactively and consistently meeting new people. I remember one of our initial conversations with Pat where she mentioned “Meeting new people, opens doors to new perspectives, opportunities and learning. Everyone has a treasure, their experiences, their expertise, their knowledge and wisdom” Ladies and gentlemen, I can't wait to get into a deeper conversation as we pull out the learnings from the treasurer of that handling. Thank you Pat for accepting our invitation and be with us today. Outro:// My key takeaways from this conversation are: Be interested in others- be curious, Be genuine, and listen to others Be interesting OFFER THEM EXPERIENCES OR OPPORTUNITIES that they might otherwise not have, or creating situations where they get to meet other people What are your key learnings. I would love to listen to your reflections, key insights and learnings. Do share your ratings and reviews on the podcast, and I look forward to meeting you again next week with yet another interesting conversation. Till then, please take care and stay tuned… 02:00 Thank you so much. 02:04 Thank you. Thank you. That's I remember our first conversation, and I think this was a year and a half back if my memory support me. And that conversation, you left me with a word called curiosity. And I would like to pick up our conversations from there. You know, you mentioned that if there's a book that you would write another time, that would be around curiosity matters. And while I was reflecting on the question that I'm going to ask you, that was the first question that came to me that I do understand that if somebody is starting a career, as somebody who's an amateur or somebody who's just getting into building a career for themselves, it's important for them to be curious. But why is curiosity important? For someone like you, with so many years of experience, you've been an investor, you've been an advisor, you consult other people to become a better version of who they are. And in all our conversations, as simple as when few days that we were together on the platform, I found you at most curious, why is it important for every individual be it amatuer or be as accomplished as you are with a wealth of experience? 03:44 I mean, Curiosity is such an innate human quality. I think everybody's born with curiosity. Little children are endlessly curious. And they're constantly learning. And I think in life, there are situations that help nurture and support that curiosity. And sometimes there are situations that might dampen that curiosity. And your basic question is, how can you still be curious when you're farther along in life? And the answer to that is, the more experienced you are, the more you see, and the more you learn, the more you realize how much you don't know. And that that actually fuels additional curiosity. So as I've gotten older, I have found that my curiosity has expanded as opposed to have been filled. And honestly, I think curiosity is life affirming. It makes you excited. I love learning about new things. I love reading books that open up new worlds to me, and I really do enjoy me Meeting people as a result of that, even though I would call myself more introverted by nature, much more reserved, certainly when I was younger. And so the skills that I've developed to build relationships and connections and to network with people were not innate. To me, I was a little bit more shy. But what's changed the game completely over time, is that I've learned that I, when I meet someone new, I indeed do find a treasure. And everybody does have some experience, some people they know some, some kind of jewel within them that through conversation you can discover. And that's what makes it exciting. So my natural inhibitions, overcome by my desire to learn my curiosity. And honestly, that has not changed, that only has increased over time. 05:56 Oh, I can see that. All these years that I've known you, it has only increased and grown to a level that where people love interacting with you, they love being a part of your life. You know, interestingly, you spoke about introverts and that was one of the questions that I genuinely wanted to understand from you, because there are people who are naturally good at connecting with others, they will be very proactive in reaching out to other people and make genuine connections. You know, making genuine connections is one thing and then sustaining and making sure that both the parties involved. They grow, as a result of, their involvement and their presence in each other's lives. And then there are people who are not naturally good at that, as you mentioned, that you have been an introvert, but at the same time, your curiosity to learn from others and your inclination to dig treasures from their lights has helped you to connect with them. You know, recently I came across this term called Network natives. Right? And so there are some natural network natives who will proactively go out, what do you think is a possible reason? Is it being introvert extrovert? Is it the natural inclination? Or what is that? 07:16 I actually think some of it is just life experience. And some of it is a little bit innate. And I think it's interesting to look at young children as they develop into their teen years and young adults. Some people are more comfortable interacting with others, some of it comes from a level of confidence, perhaps it's its birth order structure, usually, the third, fourth, fifth child is much more outgoing than perhaps the first child or an only child. So there are some environmental factors which influence whether somebody is outgoing. But whether you have those skills or not. And usually, it's those people who do not that need this encouragement, I fundamentally believe that this can be learned that even if you are a little bit more shy, that you, you know, might be comfortable. In many environments, where there are not a lot of people, you can learn how to talk to others, to connect with others, and to find the incredible benefits that come with that. And I think a lot of people think about networking and building relationships in a somewhat limited way. They think it's transactional, they think it's just self serving. They think it's great to network when they need their first jobs. And I think that's very basic and somewhat limited view of the benefits. I very much think of networking, as essential, as something that opens up new worlds for you, gives you perspective on life gives you access to resources, is actually really life affirming and fun if approached the right way. And there are techniques for it. And one of the techniques is to try is to start, START SLOW. Start with PEOPLE you know- PRACTICE, and then EXTEND that and meet NEW PEOPLE and say YES to OPPORTUNITIES. And I think, you know, the one image that comes to a lot of people's minds is okay, I'm going to a conference and you know, for some people, that's incredibly intimidating. And honestly, it was for me too early in my career, until I thought about it in a very different way. A lot of people think that, you know, conference is all about meeting as many people as you possibly can collecting cards and there and you've done a good job. And after that, nothing after that, and I have completely changed my definition of success in going to a conference. My definition of success is if you've met one, two or three people that you've had a little bit more meaningful of a conversation with that you actually do have some intention of following up with And continuing that conversation or having a coffee or seeing them at some point in life. That, to me, is real success. So it's not about VOLUME. It's about QUALITY. And it's about, it's about something that makes you feel comfortable. So when you attend a conference, in many cases, you sit next to people, usually someone that you don't know, at all, that one on one conversation with somebody sitting right next to you and saying, Hi, my name is, is this your first conference? What have you enjoyed about it so far, that kind of leads you down a path of trying to establish a connection, and finding a way in which you have some similar mutual interest to the person sitting next to you. Those simple and somewhat not intimidating conversations can lead to that ONE REALLY DEEPER CONVERSATION AND CONNECTION that you're going to FOLLOW UP with. And I will tell you, I'm sure there are people out in the audience who have had this experience where they have sat next to someone, and that person has become really meaningful to them later in their lives. So there's, you know, cocktail events, or conferences or other places where there are lots of people don't think of it as a NUMBER’s GAME at all, because IT’s NOT. It's a, it's a ONE on ONE, JUST MEET ONE or TWO PEOPLE. 11:21 You know, I love it when you said it's not about volume, it's about the quality of the connection that you're building. Where do you have the intention of seeing them again, having a cup of coffee with them again, with them again, and knowing them who they genuinely are and listening to their experiencing and pulling out the treasures from their experiences, you know, that I hear you what you're saying. At the same time, one of the challenges that I personally experienced is there are people that I would love to meet and getting an appointment from those people itself is a huge challenge. Now, what do you think are one or two ways that could assist us to. To get the foot in the door? And have that initial conversation? Only then I'll be able to break the ice, and then I'll be able to break the bread? What's your views on that? 12:13 I think that's an excellent question. And a lot of people face exactly that, you know, that dilemma. The first and most important piece is to know who you're reaching out to. And I love the fact that you say yes, sometimes I know who it is, but I don't know how to get to that person, or I don't know how to get attention from that person. So identifying the people is first. The second piece is to try to find some mutual warm introduction that you might be able to get to that person. So if for example, you'd like to meet someone, and you know that I'm connected to that person reaching out to me and saying, Pat, I'd love to meet this person, I see that you're connected, would you provide an introduction, that is such an easy thing to do. And once there's a warm intro, everything changes. If you can get the warm intro, now, if you can't find the warm intro, then you need to find something that you believe will be helpful to that person that you can offer. So it's NOT about YOU and WHAT YOU WANT, it's very much about THEM, and HOW YOU CAN BE HELPFUL TO THEM. And so if you can determine that, for example, by looking at their LinkedIn profile and understanding where they might have gone to school, what their experience basis, what they've done recently, what they've posted about, perhaps they've written about, and you can then do your research, because that is foundational, you know, you can't just cold call someone and not know anything, because of course, you're not going to get a response, you have to do a little bit of research and say, I read your blog post, I thought it was fascinating. For these reasons. I'd love to learn more about what you do and support your work. I'd love to share your blog post with my followers too. So then it's not as much about you, it's a little bit about them. And what you can offer someone totally changes the nature of the introduction, and totally allows the other person to engage and say, Yes, that sounds great. We can have a conversation, one that likely will be mutually beneficial. But the person sees value value in it for themselves. 14:18 I see what you're saying. What I'm listening is its CONTRIBUTION BEFORE CONSUMPTION. Yes. Yes. And I love it when you said that find the common connection so that we can have the warm introduction, and then look at where can I add value to the other person? I think one of the common themes which is emerging here is that how can I be of some value to the person that I'm talking to be it in a conference, be it in a one to one conversation be meeting somebody at a cocktail party or anywhere? How can I be of some value to you? I think that is the TRUE ESSENCE OF CONNECTIONS. You know All at the same time, but just taking one step ahead here. As you mentioned, in conferences, you go, you exchange cards, you come back, you're really happy because you've got 50 new cards with you, and you do nothing about that most of the times. Now, what do you think? What comes in the way? So what I mean is making a connection is one thing, and then nurturing the relationship is another one. What do you think comes in the way of nurturing and sustaining a relationship? What do you think? Where do most of us fail? 15:38 Most of us do fail on the follow up. And most of us fail on making it intentional. And honestly, this has happened to me too, I did gather, you know, call it only five business cards. And I was super excited about those conversations. And I get back to my office, and all of a sudden, all my work descends upon me, and I don't make it a point to follow up. And what I have learned to do, which has really helped me a tremendous amount, it makes my life that much easier, is I am very intentional. And I do things right away. Because if you take that stack of five cards, and you put it on your desk, and you don't do anything with it within the first 24 hours, nothing is gonna get done, you've lost, you've lost it, it's like, you know, throwing seeds out onto a field, and then not watering it not, you know, not putting fertilizer on having be completely fallow. And instead, the smart thing to do is right away, when you've gotten those five cards, go back up to your room before you you know, retire for the evening, right? Five quick emails. And all they have to say was, it was truly a pleasure to meet you. I really enjoyed our conversation about X, I would love to stay in touch. You know, let's plan to talk in two weeks, when you're in New York City, let's have coffee, whatever it is, and then mark your calendar in two weeks a month time to send a quick follow up note. And you've done a very simple doesn't take very long at all, it is intentional, it's thoughtful, and think about how the person on the other end feels. They feel terrific, you followed up, you've done something, and in most cases, not all. And so don't have you know, 100% expectations on this, in most cases, people will send another note and say something else where it continues the conversation. And then after this has taken place, and you go on in your life and do various things. And you're reading books, or articles or magazines, or you learn about other conferences, or you meet someone that you think the person you met previously could really benefit from knowing. Introduce them, send the article, send the information about the conference that you saw was so interesting that they thought might be interesting to follow up with the bits and pieces of life that you pick up along the way. And think about the various people that might be interested in that. And sometimes you have to stay top of mind to do it. I was at a dinner this past week, I saw a gentleman who I know and I've developed a relationship with the next day I was meeting somebody else. And in my conversation with that person, I thought I really need to connect these two. And I did it took I checked with each of them to make sure because I like to do that. And the one individual said we have 85 common connections and we've never been connected. I so appreciate that Pat finally connected us so that we can have a conversation. It took me two seconds to do it. And yet I think I gave each of them a gift and I'm positive they're going to have a wonderful conversation that will lead to other conversations. You have to think about you have to think outside of whatever's happening to you who else could benefit? And honestly, it doesn't take long to make that happen. And people really appreciate that. 19:17 Yeah, yeah. So two words, which I'm picking up here. One is, it's a long term game. So you have to be intentional. Investing that game? Yes. And the second one is, as you mentioned, you need to be more mindful of who else can I connect this person with? How can I actually add value what what's the article that I can forward to this person that might be of some value to the person again, coming back to the value? Also, you know, I have personally come across people who would reach out to me on LinkedIn, when I would speak to them and I would connect with them. There's a they would pull out a lot of appreciation. Now, in my mind, I get confused. Is it the genuine appreciation? Or is it the flattery? How would you create a distinction? Which one is appreciation, genuine appreciation and respect for you? And which one is coming from a space of flattery? Because that's a transactional, that's just to get out of get out something from that person. Right. Right. 20:26 Right. I think that's a great question. I am perhaps, somewhat optimistic in life, and I look for you know, I give people the benefit of the doubt. I actually do think human beings are incredibly good at sensing authenticity. And so when you have a vibe of Yes, I think this person really is genuine, and I enjoy their company. You kind of know that. And sometimes when you're feeling, you know, this is not quite right. Do you know that too, and you may act a different way. But I think you should trust your instincts on that. And I think you should, you know, look for authenticity, because it's very important. And also very essential, you should practice that authenticity, you should be genuine to, and, you know, you should try to be helpful to people, I think it's fine to compliment people, I think that's a really good thing to do. I, you know, and I wouldn't compliment somebody on something that I didn't think was a good thing myself, and I think people can tell. So it's okay to do that. But be genuine and kind of watch out for that as people come to you too. And it becomes very clear if somebody really is trying to be kind and establish a relationship versus someone who is saying those things and immediately has an ask, and then you may deal with that in a different way. 21:52 Thank you. I'm just wondering how to create a distinction by by into, and as you mentioned, the word intuition. I think that's where we all need to be more mindful of the need to just go back to our own senses. And look at ways that it was coming from and something that you brought in, thank you for bringing that authenticity part. Because when I'm being authentic, I know where I'm coming from. And when I'm being authentic, I know what I'm receiving as well. Now that what are your views? What do you think? What are the ways that could help you to become a person that others might want to connect with you? One is you would like to connect with others. So here, so we spoke about the push factor now. But the cool factor, right? Type B, that would that would make people to connect with? One is authenticity that I heard, definitely. What do you think? What are the other? 23:01 I kind of think of it in this way, there are two ways to be the person that someone would like to spend time with and talk to. One is to BE INTERESTED. So GENUINELY, LISTEN when someone talks, show curiosity, ask questions, but listen, like listen to someone, people really do want to be heard. They want to be understood. And again, that has to come from a genuine place. Because if you're rushed, and you don't pay attention, if you're looking at your phone, if you're off to the next meeting, it's clear people see that. So being interested, I think, is really step one. And step two is to BE INTERESTING. So what do you bring to the table? What is, you know, what is the experience base people, you know, expertise that you can add, and that you have control over? I love to read, I love to read on a variety of different topics. And I think it's helpful to me, because when I find somebody I'm looking for where that mutual interest is. And I kind of asked questions to determine that. And when I find something that I'm genuinely also interested in, then we can go much deeper, then I can follow up with other information. And I think that makes me interesting too. And, you know, do things, go to that dinner, go to that event. Go on a trip travel, traveling does make you interesting, it opens the world. And if you can talk to somebody about their travels, or their hobbies, or what they like to do in their free time. That's all fair game. And honestly, sometimes that's where the deepest connections happen. Sometimes it can happen. Talking about family, talking about either sibling things or issues related to parents or sons and daughters, depending on the age of the individual, you know, I have grown children. And that is, children are a wonderful topic of conversation throughout that time. But helping elderly parents is another topic of conversation that a lot of people can relate to. And a lot of people go through that period. So kind of what you're going through in life is also a way to connect to feel a little bit closer to somebody else, and to their experience. 25:34 Thank you for bringing that element. You know, one philosophy talks about being interesting. You definitely spoke about being interesting. But I think first you spoke about being interested. And then being interesting. And interesting thread that I've also picked up here is be genuinely curious about their lives, you spoke about their interest, she spoke about what's happening in their life, you spoke about one of the things that they love doing, the focus light is on to them. And then you are being a conduit, to connect with them at that deepest possible level. So what I'm listening is be genuinely curious, you spoke about being interested, what are the other ways that could help people that they would love to connect with you. 26:44 I think OFFERING THEM EXPERIENCES OR OPPORTUNITIES that they might otherwise not have, or creating situations where they get to meet other people. I once learned this from a young venture capitalist. And I tell you, I learned all the time. And I learned so much from young people. And this young woman who's very, very busy shared with me, some of her networking hacks. And she said, sometimes it's hard to meet one on one with people because she has a very broad network. And to keep that up, it takes some time and effort. So what she does is once a month, she has a breakfast meeting where she invites eight to 10 people who genuinely don't know one another. She invites them so that she gets to see them, but they get to meet one another. And I will tell you, one of your other guests, I met through one of those breakfasts. And at that breakfast, I met Vanessa, and we have been such good friends over a number of years. And it wouldn't have happened if it weren't for that breakfast run by this young venture capitalist. So create, and therefore that young woman is always close to my heart, because she gave me the gift of the NASA and through through that event. So create an event like that. invite somebody to an unusual event I mentioned I went to a dinner this past week that dinner was a lovely dinner with a number of people that were you know, in an area that I'm interested in, and someone had hired a chef to cook for this group. And it intrigued me and I know somebody else who attended was also intrigued by that experience. It wasn't going to a restaurant it wasn't, you know, it wasn't your traditional kind of invite event conference or cocktail party, it was just a slight bit different. And so will I remember the individuals at that event and the person who invited me, of course I will because it was out of my routine, it was special. So if you can ask people to join you to do something that's a little bit different, or ask people to join you and meet other people they otherwise might not. It takes a little effort to organize that. But the more you do it, the better you are at it, and the more you can be efficient in your process of building and nurturing your network. 29:06 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. You know, since you are talking about venture capitalist, you spoke about, and you do a lot of work in the space of investors community, right. But I'm just curious, what do you look for? When you are meeting a new founder and when you know that you would like to invest in that company? What do you look for? What are the traits that you look for? That gives you the necessary confidence that I would like to invest on this person? 29:40 There are two main things that I look for that really matter to me. And I, you know, I'm in a very fortunate position later on in my career, where I can choose who I spend time with, and I can choose who I back. So the individual really matters. And if that person comes well referred To me, and I spend time with the industry visual, and I find them to be of HIGH INTEGRITY, I find them to be very committed, I find them to be very thoughtful about their business and what they're trying to create and why they're trying to do that. That actually is a very important box for me to check. Secondly, I really do care about the PRODUCT & SERVICE, I really do care about what they are doing, and how they are doing it. And the what matters to me so much that I wouldn't invest in something I'm not proud of. And, and that is different for every individual. What I'm proud of may not be what somebody else's. But I look for things that I resonate with, I look for products that I would buy myself. One of my first private investments was in a shoe company led by two women based here in New York, I wear their shoes, and I talk about it, and I'm proud of it. Similarly, I invested in a company that is a water company. I drink the water, I proud of the water I like I like talking about it. I am a I'm a brand ambassador for it. 31:08 Cara is amazing individual is amazing. 31:11 Yes. And she is and and look, I I value the relationship with her as much as I value. The fact that what she's trying to do and why she's doing it really matters. And I actually think of her company as a health and wellness company, not as a food and beverage company. And I think it is. And I love the motivation for why she did it. All of that matters to me. It is not surprising that human beings love stories. But the story really does matter why? And how and what and who all of that matters. 31:47 Yeah, stories matter. I think that's the easiest way to connect to the other person when you know that your story is their story. And their story is your story. And what is visible to us is only a part of what is visible to us. What is not visible is the context in which what is available to you recite something, you'd get to know that a new world opens up for you. So thank you, but but let's take a deeper dive into the questions which are coming here. It's a beautiful question, I would love to read it for you by Pawan province's, thank you for the good session of popular metaphor goes somewhat like this. You don't meet people by accident, they are meant to cross your path for a reason. What do you think of this? If this is true? How does networking relate to this? What a beautiful question. Thank you problem. 32:38 I love that question. And the older I get, the more I believe that I actually do think people cross your path for a purpose. And I think if that is true, then you're going to approach those opportunities with people in a different way. And you will say, Okay, what is what is my learning here? And how can I be helpful here. And I will tell you the other interesting thing, and this is especially important advice for younger people, and that is that you don't know which of the many people you meet today will cross your path later in life, maybe in 10 years, maybe in 20 years, maybe later than that. And I have seen that so often in my life. And I know anecdotally, it's true for so many others. But I'll give this one story there was when I was very young, I was going through the job hunting process, and I received my first rejection. And this individual called me on the phone and said, Pat, we really loved your background, etc. Nice things, but sorry, you are not moving through forward in this process. And honestly, I came away from that conversation. Not upset at all, because the individual let's call him Jim was so polite and said it in such a nice way that actually had warm feelings toward this man, even though he said no. What do you know, a year later, once I had my job, he was the banker to the firm I worked with. So he was across the table from me and fortunately, was wonderful to see him again. And I have fond feelings toward him. Many years later, he came back into my life when I was in a role to help people find roles within our companies. He was looking for opportunities. He came to me for advice. years after that he became my neighbor at my home. He got me interested in bicycling. And we've invested in companies together and I still keep in touch with him. This is a man who I didn't know what at all, why that interview with who rejected me from that particular opportunity. And he crossed my path several times over the course of my life in really nice ways. And I consider him a friend today. You never know. So if you're the one saying no to someone do it nicely. And if you're the one receiving it, think of it differently because you never know when you'll see this person again he may be he may be your cause. Customer, he may be your client, you never know. 35:02 Yeah. You know, interestingly, you are bringing this analogy that having, are we meant to meet these people? Or is that working? Intentional? That's what we're talking about. You know, sometime back, somebody asked me this question I got about is, how would you find the purpose of your life? And I did not have an answer. I took a deep sigh. That's, that's a loaded question. I think that's an existential question, nobody has been able to decode it. Even if there are so many books around that. So reflected, I took a deeper dive within my own self, so that my mind does not interfere. To know my own truth and my own reality. And I said, you know, Rumi says, what you are seeking is seeking you. And if that wisdom holds true, if I'm searching for my purpose, even purpose must be seeking form. Now, the question is not that how would you find your purpose? The question is, where would you find that purpose? How would you know that you're moving in the right direction, and that sermon is starting to reflect? I said, when you are meeting people in your life, who are vibrating at the same level of the same frequency at which you are vibrating, when you can speak the same language, when you are, when you meet, you experience ease, you experience lightness, you know that you're moving in the right direction. If not today, tomorrow, if not tomorrow day, after, I'm sure your purpose is going to meet you, because what you are seeking is seeking you. 36:42 I absolutely agree with that. I think that's so true. And the one piece I would add to that is you have to place yourself in the path of opportunity. And I would advise that the way you place yourself in the path of opportunity is by meeting new people, and by nurturing relationships, because it's the people that you meet, and sometimes the brand new people that you meet, that can open a door or a window or an opportunity that you might not have considered before. And similarly, you might be able to offer it to them, too. So it's not going to happen in a closed door, necessarily in front of a computer, unless you're doing some kind of virtual networking, which I agree with. But it has to happen with your effort. It has to happen with some kind of action, it has to be intentional on your part, you have to be in the path of those opportunities for those opportunities to find you. and meeting people. You're many of your listeners are coaches, those coaches should be encouraging their clients, to meet new people to help them grow and learn and seek new opportunities and coaches meet one another because you're learning from one another. 38:01 Yeah. You know that, as I'm just listening to a question is coming now here, I'm being intentional to build new connections, and to grow along with them. Now, what do you think? Where does connection networking on one hand, and being respectful of each other's boundaries and bandwidth? Where do these two things coexist? 38:28 I think that's a good question. I will answer it with one example. So when you do connect people, which I think is an important thing to do, I think it's important to check with each individual whether they are open to that connection, because you can't do it without checking. Sometimes people have things going on in their lives, sometimes timings not right. So I really try to be very respectful of people's boundaries and their capacity by checking with them by asking them if this is okay. And sometimes when you make an ask of someone and they say no, it's really not about you. It's about their capability at that point in time. It's about what's going on in their lives, both professionally and personally. So don't take those knows in a personal way, check in later. Try later. You know, be thoughtful of it. Lots of people have things going on in their lives. That doesn't mean you don't try that doesn't mean you don't ask I think you should I think if you don't ask you don't get it's a very simple you know, way to think about life you should make the ask but then understand that you know what sometimes timings not right. Something's going on. I'm having a child. You know, my parent is sick. There are lots of life things that happen and it could be later. 39:47 Yeah, yeah. Life happens life. Yeah. So just the last question that What's your understanding? What is the To essence of life? 40:02 I think that's a good question. And I do contemplate it myself. I think the older I get, the more I believe that the purpose of life is to learn and to help others learn. purpose of life is really you know, life throws things at you. And through that process, shapes you shapes your thinking, hopefully shapes you for the better, makes you stronger. And hopefully, you can share some of that strength and knowledge and kindness with other people to help their journey. 40:38 Thank you. Thank you so much. Because the more I interact with people, the more I realize that how the essence of life fails, coming back to basics, be it as you mentioned, learn. Somebody would say, live, somebody else would say, Love. And as you mentioned, be kind to each other. It's time it's high time that we need to go back to basics. And it's time to be kind. Thank you so much, Pat. Such an honor having you here. I just loved our conversation, as I've always loved our conversations. So shukran Thank you. 41:16 Thank you so much. There's a wonderful opportunity. Congratulations on running this marathon. This is incredible. I'm very excited for you and I wish you all the best and we will continue our conversations going forward. 41:29 Looking forward.

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