Eddie Turner

Intro:// Welcome ladies and gentleman, welcome to the podcast the xMonks Drive. I am your host Gaurav Arora. And This being the 100th episode is obviously a special one…. what a journey it has been…Tons of conversations…. ☺ wealth of learning…and loads of insights…In fact, we have started a new series on LinkedIn called 108 refelctionbeads…based on my reflections on these episodes…my conversations with the masters, thought leaders and Business Leaders…coaches and entrepreneurs….If you have not yet listened to that…please do….I am sure you would love it and it would provide you space to expand and grow☺ So, let’s get going…and see what we have for today… Our today’s guest is Eddie Turner. Eddie Turner is an in-demand leadership development expert. He is "Changing the Face of Leadership" as a Principal Consultant and Executive Coach at Linkage, Inc—an international leadership development firm. Eddie is a Certified Speaking Professional™ (CSP®) and ranked #9 on the Top 30 list of Motivational Speakers by Global Gurus. Forbes recognized Eddie as the Preeminent Authority on Emerging Leaders. Eddie Turner is one of Marshall Goldsmith's 100 Coaches. He is a Certified Breakthrough Coach by Marcia Reynolds (Worlds #1 Female Coach), a Fellow with the Institute of Coaching (McLean/Harvard Medical School), an International Certified Coach, a Professional Certified Coach (PCC) coach with the International Coach Federation, and an official ICF Mentor Coach. In today’s conversation, we are going to explore leadership in the multigenerational culture and why it’s becoming more and more important to be more mindful and continue to upgrade ourselves. Let’s take a dive… Outro:// What a fascinating conversation. What’s your one key take away? Do share that with us…and please leave a rating and take some time to review the podcast. It will help me get better….and I look forward to meeting you again next week with another interesting conversation…. Till then, please take care and stay tuned… Let’s 00:03 Thank you so much, Eddie, what a pleasure having you here on the podcast. Next month's strike. How have you been today? 00:10 Everything is wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. What a joy to be here. Pleasure is always mine, you know, 00:17 having read the and the work that you do, 00:21 having heard you on several occasions beat ICF conference or different webinars. Always wanted to have you on the podcast. So finally the day is here. Such a pleasure. Yes, yes, and I'm a big fan of your work and what your organisation is doing. And to prodigious footprint you have established across the globe, quite a thing of joy to see, I really admire what you're doing. 00:47 Thank you so much. 00:49 The world knows you as one of the finest professional speakers. 00:54 The world knows you as one of the authorities when it comes to executive coaching. The world knows you, as one of the top 10 motivational speakers in the world. Just want to know, Eddie, how would you define yourself without your titles? 01:16 As a husband, as a father, a son, who loves people, who's a man of faith and principle, I think that's really who I am at my core. 01:28 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. 01:33 And, you know, if you may share one of those early memories from your childhood, that brings a smile on your face today as well. 01:42 That's always my mom, I was fortunate to have my mom and my dad for perhaps the first 1314 years of my life. And my dad 01:53 alive until I think I was about 30. About 30 When he died, but the Yeah, so you might my earliest memories aren't Yes, just the I say my mom first because she was the one who read to me every night. And I say that a lot of what I was able to go on to accomplish came from fundamentally from reading. And so to that, to this day, that remains something that's important to me, and even with my own children is this, the idea of being able to read 02:23 is really importantly, and it's because of her, my dad has a lot of other things from a lot of life lessons. But I think it all starts with your ability to communicate. 02:35 And any specific lesson that you've learned from your dad, I can understand that you're picked up reading from your mother. 02:42 Anything with my data would have been more disciplines, very much the disciplinarian very much perhaps structure. And I became a perfectionist probably as a result of that work on that later on. But yeah, that did hold me in good stead. 03:01 And I can actually see both the traits and you, you know, be it someone who reads a lot of goals you read a lot. You write a lot of blogs, all the work that you do is so well researched. And of course, the disciplinarian and perfectionist. I have encountered that a few times for sure. 03:23 Thank you. Yeah. 03:26 You know, you do a lot of work with different organisations in the world. You work with multi generational workforces and organisations. 03:37 Just cute is what makes it important for today's leaders to understand the need for multi generational coaching. 03:45 multi generational coaching is important for today's leaders, because for the first time ever, there are five generations of employees in the workforce. And that's according to Harvard Business Review. Now, 03:59 there was a time that you didn't necessarily have to be concerned about different perspectives from a different generation as you as much as you did now. But when you have that much of a span, where you have people who are born perhaps in 1920s, and 30s in the workforce, and those who are born in later years, there's different expectations, there are different demands. And if not properly handled, and kept in balance, you can create a real tension and friction. 04:30 Thank you. Thank you for bringing the word, friction and tension, just for everyone's benefit the audience who are listening to us right now. Just putting few some data in place so that we will be able to relate to that. You know, in today's conversation, we are getting deeper into coaching and of course, the multi generational coaching. So when we're talking multi generational coaching, he just mentioned that on an average as per Harvard Business Review, on an average five generations are working today in the same ordinary 05:00 nation. 05:01 Let's start with different generation that we're going to explore today. Generation a, what we call as the battery generation is people who are born after 2013. 05:12 Generation Z is 1997 to 2012, Generation Y is 1981 to 1996. And then we have got Generation X as well 1965 to 80. And generation, what we call as baby boomers 1946 to 64. Before that, we call them the greatest generations. So, this is what we're going to dwell deeper into, you know, Eddie, you spoke about friction and tension. And that's one thing that I genuinely want to ask you. But before we get into that space, 05:49 really curious to understand. 05:52 On one hand, when you're talking about, it's really important, what makes it important for today's leaders to understand that so that we know that there are multiple generations both in organisation to reduce the friction to reduce the tension, it's, it becomes more and more important for us to understand that we have to navigate our path through that. What do you think what are the primary changes in their needs, or desires or their expectation that you have observed and working with different generations and an organisation 06:21 there are several, the first I perhaps would mention is what it means to be led in an organisation. When you have come from the generation that has the mindset, that leadership is a command control proposition. And that is largely important, because for example, we are talking about the greatest generation, those born 1924 or earlier. 06:47 They and that phrase comes from Tom Brokaw, famous American journalist Tom Brokaw, who called them that because what they went through that generation is saw World War One, followed by traditionalists, the generation saw World War Two. 07:02 And so the military concept of leadership is top down. And the person with the most stripes on their on their garment is the unquestionable authority. Yeah. And therefore what they say goes, Well, today's generation, were you talking about the millennial generation, or the battery generation? Do we call them that because the battery generation, everything's always been digital for them, you know, they're not going to do is just do something because you said, so 07:31 they're not going to subscribe to your way of thinking because you're older, more experienced, they have the answer, you got to prove it to me, you've got to explain it to me. And so just that fundamental difference. 07:44 What is leadership? What is good leadership, and how you should be led or be leading is a prime example of what we're talking about here. I can so much relate to that. Because at one point in time, when my parents told me that this is what you should be doing, without even questioning them, I will do as being asked from me. And if I ask something to the next generation, which is today's generation, as we document the battery generations, right? Or 08:14 they would ask me, Hey, tell me what the scientific reason for doing that, you know, it's like few days back, I was in one of those prayers. 08:22 And 08:26 the lead pundit, the preacher asked us to cover our head, and sit in a particular position. And most of us sat one of the one of the generation that comes from the battery generation, this young girl, she must be in the first year of her education. She asked the priest, Hey, why are you asking me to cover my head? What is the reason behind that? And she would not say yes to that, unless, unless the priest is willing to give her a scientific reason she continued to face that. And that is one of those shifts that even I have observed from command to control to moving into why are you asking me to do something? And 09:09 and of course, there are a lot of other other other differences as well, that we are going to explore as we move on, Eddie, Eddie, I'm just wondering 09:20 what are the other different ways that could help us that could help and a team member determined what each generation expect from the organisation? What each generation expect from the leader? As you as you mentioned, there are five different generations working in an organisation. So is there any 09:45 thermometer type of scope that could help me understand what are they expecting from me as a leader? What are they expecting from me as an organisation? So what's what are your views on that those? Those standards tend to be set by you? 10:00 Eat organisational leadership, I would think when you look at an organisation, typically leadership says, here's how we will operate. Here's our vision, our mission statement. So this is the standards that we set for our external stakeholders. But also, here's what internal stakeholders can expect us to operate from. And when those are properly in place, then no one has to guess how they should show up how they should leave. And I say, based on a meme, I saw someplace, so I can't give proper attribution. But it said learn to be the thermostat, not the thermometer, we should be setting the temperature and not just in the room telling people it's not warm enough, it's not cold enough. Yes, leaders set the temperature, and then employees will respond and tell you if you're leading in the right direction. Now that may be very different in an organisation that's based in tech, then went to space and finance, then when the space in academia, then women space to medical, so each one has to set their own toe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, as you mentioned, mentioned about the thermostat analogy, what a beautiful analogy. And accordingly, the way people are responding, I should be able to regulate it up or down, I should be willing to tune it up or turn it down. And also brings a word called co creation for me. But I think, 11:26 going back to your analogy of command to control, I should be willing to move to co creation, and align my team members to feed me if they're feeling comfortable with the temperature in the room. 11:42 That is so true. Today, collaboration goes far more collaboration and co creation, as you mentioned, far further than command and control. Now, here's the other reason command and control doesn't work the way it used to, at one point in the manufacturing world, in the agricultural society, right? We've moved from those types of societies to a knowledge based society. So no cases command control worked really well, when you were the biggest and the strongest on the manufacturing line. It worked really, really well, when you were the smartest person who knew something you got promoted, because you were the smartest. Now people understand that no, in the knowledge economy, everybody has access to data. Data is in abundance. So this idea in the past used to be able to hold it and if you held it in, you keep me from getting a job, that doesn't work anymore. Because technology has changed that dynamic. And so a leader can no longer know everything now that should they be expected to know everything that in and of itself, demands that a leader be more collaborative and more co creative, because they simply can't possibly know everything, and the digital society we live in today. Yeah, I just love it when you said a leader is not even expected to know everything. I just love it. How comfortable a leader be with that? That's another question. How comfortable are you to be in a place where you can say, You know what, I don't know everything. And I'm okay with that. 13:14 Somebody does or not. And that's where coaching comes in some leaders exactly how they must know everything. And they put this undue pressure on themselves. 13:24 Because all of our lives, we have been rewarded for what we know. We graduated from school, we got awards, we pass the Scholastic exams, SATs or whatever they may be. And people rewarded us for what we knew. And so to come into a place of ambiguity, when we don't know something, it can be very uncomfortable for a leader. But I tell leaders when working with them to consider 13:50 if you always know everything, 13:52 have you really grown? 13:55 We must get to a point where we don't know because that's where learning customer takes place. New learning new skills, new competencies are only required if you're going to do something different. 14:07 And that's where even when individuals talk about I feel like an impostor, because they got a promotion. And now they feel like oh, they're gonna find out I'm not as smart as they think I am. And Dr. Ruth Goshen said in her work in Psychology Today, only successful people suffer from the imposter syndrome. Because people who haven't accomplished anything, they never feel that way. 14:30 They have no reason to feel like an impostor. Beautiful, what a beautiful example that you have shared it. And I'm just wondering people that I have dealt with people I've coached in my, in my in my, in my practice, people who are dealing with impostor syndrome, they might have some assumption that they should be knowing a lot of things that they should know everything apart from the other assumption that they might have. 14:56 And how can one coach 15:00 that leader that would allow HoH to one, identify this assumption, accept this assumption 15:10 and move beyond that. Is there any special secret sauce that you have? 15:17 There's no secret sauce. 15:19 What wouldn't leaders manifest these feelings in words, or has shown up because other people have provided feedback and a 360 assessment, or some other way we've received that data point, I work with that leader uniquely as to what has brought them to that state of mind. And we open up a coaching toolkit and use the right tools to help that leader arrive where they need to be, and that environment needs to be so they can show up the right way, the right time. For the right people for the right reasons. Yeah. So what I'm listening right now is, it's extremely important for the coach to assist the coachee to identify what has brought them to that assumption. And if you can identify that, that could be a good opening for the leader to explore what might be possible from that, Daniel, thank you, Eddie. Eddie, you spoke about tension and friction right? 16:17 Now, because there are multiple generations working in an organisation, what it also means is that they bring different sets of values, they bring different set of needs, in the conversation in the culture, they bring in a different set of contexts that they were born into, and what they're bringing in the organisation. They also bring in different ways of expressing themselves. 16:41 Now, because of that, 16:43 the natural consequence, if I use the word natural, I'm not sure. 16:48 The consequences tension, friction. 16:53 What are the ways to address that possible tension, friction conflict that they might emerge from the multi generational approach to work? 17:03 To start by thinking about even how people think about the word coaching, coaching was once just a phrase used literally, in the days of a stage coach, where a device took people from one place to another. 17:17 Well, then we got into this area of sports coaching, sports coaching, where the coach, you know, really, sometimes can be a bit abrasive and how they speak to, to the people they're coaching, and then down to the first where time where Tim Galloway introduced it as a mechanism to help be used in business. Yeah, so helping individuals understand what coaching really is, can go a long way to having discussions with individuals to reduce friction, strife, tension, about leadership. 17:51 So as we look at how coaching in itself has changed definitions, so as leadership, we said we went from command and control to you should be a little bit more collaborative co creation. There's a the leadership theories that exists. So servant leadership, to transformational leadership, or as I often quote Robin Sharma, or Keith Ferrazzi, who have picked up on the work of Dr. Ronald Heifetz. And this idea of leading without titles, that you don't have to have formal leadership, where you have a title and an organisation to steal lead. Dr. Heifetz at the Harvard Kennedy School calls it in his adaptive leadership framework, formal versus informal. And formal leadership means I don't have a title. But I still can lead. 18:37 And to the extent that I receive proper coaching, I can lead even better, but we find a lot of people are able to do this without permission. And then later on, end up with formal leadership capacity or authority, but not always, is it something that someone has to wait to be given to them? 18:55 Yeah, yeah. I love it when you're talking about the formal and the informal and any reference to Ron lipids, I think brings a smile on my face. I personally admire the work of hybrids, especially the adaptive leadership. You know, in your experience, Eddie, what do you think what is the 19:13 big biggest hurdle? 19:17 A leader faces 19:19 when dealing with 19:22 Generation Z, you know, what's the biggest challenge a baby boomer faces or Generation X faces when dealing with Generation Z? 19:37 We have the different generational expectations. And so each one has different expectations for different reasons. But we might say that one begins with expectations of what it means to be a good worker to be a good employee. For a great number of people from the boomer age because they grew up under that command control authority. There was about how much FaceTime I see how much do I see you at off at the office? 20:00 Yeah, and the person that arrived early stay late was always considered the hardest worker, even if they really weren't working at all. Yeah. And that's changed today. So people understand today that it's not about FaceTime. It's not about how much you're seeing, can you judge me on my productivity? It's certainly in a world where technology has enabled us to be far more productive than how many hours are seeing us physically in the office. But a number of people found is that the pandemic changed people's perception. Many people said, oh, you can't do this job from home, you can't do this job remotely. What they discovered is you could do far more remotely than you once thought possible. Yeah, in fact, people were more productive, either because they weren't having to work lose time, by chance being transported back and forth to work more because they weren't wasting time. 20:52 being interrupted, throughout the day, or at the watercooler, or whatever it may be, people really were getting far more done. So this ability to have a different expectation of what it means to be a hard worker, a different definition of what it means to be a hard worker, and then an acceptance that there should be no judgement, ah, this is being productive, and you see it surfacing. 21:18 I just love it. When you have any especially you give the example of 21:22 the FaceTime in office or the FaceTime on mobile, they're two different things. 21:27 Two different things. And you mentioned something so beautiful, in a very lighter way. You mentioned that people have different expectations for different reasons. Just curious, what are those reasons, if you may shed some light? Why does a generation 21:42 coming from the baby boomers show up have different expectations from someone who's coming from Generation Z? 21:52 Partially what we refer to earlier, so this expectation is based on life experiences, and life experiences, not just for that person's life, but for a, a expand. So social scientists who put this together and even came up with this concept of generations, the idea was somewhere between this 18 to 25 year window, here's a there's a there's a mental shift that takes place, over a large group of people call the generation, something as simple as the language we use the words that we use change every 50 years in the English language, but over over and over even over the the globe, I think we can see the change pretty much in that same 18 to 50 window, what we wear our style of dress our clothing, all of these are part of where we have the shift, and we'd say, Okay, this is what's appropriate. Now, this is what's appropriate now, and we make these changes. 22:50 And now how might that surface? It may be something as simple as your I was raised that for a variety of reasons. To use the phrase, yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. When speaking to 23:04 people? 23:05 Well, today, there's a group of people that don't do 23:11 farming that don't identify as Sir ma'am, because they don't identify with he or she, man or woman. They identify as something other, they've transitioned. And so they are non binary, they don't necessarily refer to a gender, or they've have a gender change. And so I must be sensitive to this. This is not something I had to worry about in the previous generation. Yeah, but this is something that we now have to worry about in this generation. And that's just one example of something that changes that we must make an adjustment to, and both language, demeanour and posture. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not surprised the world is talking about diversity and inclusion. And it's not only the multi generations that we are dealing with, we are dealing with multi cultural, the world is actually gone, globalised. We are also dealing with LGBTQ community where their rules of life are very different from someone who probably does not belong to that community and yet we all belong to humanity. There are certain principles that will continue to remain 24:22 similar for all the human beings and yet we make different rules to protect our identity. 24:31 How easy or difficult is it for you according to 24:39 to release my own identity and to embrace and accept 24:46 180 degree different point of view 24:51 and what role can coaching play in that? 24:55 Well, the ease is only a question that each individual can 25:00 Answer. For some people, it's, it's very easy. For others, it's a monumental lift. The other point that I would perhaps highlight is, it doesn't have to be that make a mental shift in terms of what I accept, I can acknowledge another person's way of life, another person's choice or preference, I don't have to accept that as my own. And so if I'm struggling with the idea that I must accept this, I'm probably going to be a little bit more resistant to it. If I rather than if I just simply say, I can acknowledge this and respect this to completely points, different points of view. For example, it doesn't have to necessarily be something in terms of the LGBTQ component. Maybe it says it's a political component, or whatever other ideology, this, can I look at my fellow human being as simply a human being that has made a choice? It's very different from my own, whether I agree or not. Yeah, and which is okay. Yeah, which is okay. And do I need to 26:02 accept that to be able to acknowledge it, and treat them as you can be? And that's where we get in trouble. Because I don't want to accept it for me, I'm not going to accept it for you. And now am I not gonna accept it for you, I want to talk about you trash, you will meet you as a result. What on earth gave me that authority? 26:19 Right. That's where we get into trouble when we overstep our own and put your bounds, try to force our feelings and opinions on others. I just love it, what you said, I can accept where the other person is coming from. And it's okay, if you don't embrace that. It's okay if I don't embrace that in my life, right? And as you said, Who am I to put my own assumptions, my own biases and prejudices onto the other person? Who am I? Who has given me that thought to put my own pain and my own biases and beautiful question to ask. 26:52 And while I'm just listening to you, I'm just looking at the biases and the prejudices that I have. 26:58 For other fellow human beings, be it different gender be different people with different preferences, people with different colour cast, people coming from different nationalities, people from different religion, and then a pause, going back and asking who have given me the authority 27:22 to bring these biases and prejudices? 27:28 Isn't this it's so interesting that at times, at times, I'm saying, 27:34 We, as human beings, 27:37 have the tendency to put ourselves in the centre of the universe. 27:43 And look at the worst from that perspective. 27:48 And what do you think? Where does that come from? 27:54 We often, if not careful, 27:59 will aggrandized ourselves and put ourselves in the position that we ought not. 28:04 I say we ought not. Because 28:08 this idea that unless we, it's hard to make ourselves do something, 28:14 how many of us have gone to the physician, and the physician has told us, hey, you know, you really should stop eating this, or you should stop doing that. Or you should start exercising whatever it may be. And we know we should do it. And we just can't get ourselves to take this step we know, we'll save our life or make our health better. And yet, we look at someone else and try to do the same thing. Tell them what they should do. And we're not their doctor, their physician, their loved one their spouse, you can get your spouse, if you're a parent, you have a hard time getting your children to do what you want them to do. You're like, I'm your father, I know what's best. 28:52 Yeah, so it's just senseless to think that we can go to another human being and force upon them our way of life or our opinion. Yeah, certainly. 29:03 We see that far off in the press, we like 29:07 just picking up the analogy. And the word which is coming to me is addictive, how addictive is sweet to me. 29:17 Similarly, how addictive is the identity that I've created for myself that I'm important is important to me. 29:25 And I think 29:27 that drives the control, I would like to control all the sweets 29:32 in front of me at the same time, I would like to control that people should behave the way I'm asking them to behave because I think in my mind, I'm important. And then the control and the command comes in the game and possibly picking up the same analogy into the multi generation that we've been talking about. And that stays with me and requires a lot of introspection within ourselves. 29:53 You know, one of the few or one of the many ways is conversations with Sal 30:00 The inquiry, right, 30:02 further taking you to the next level. 30:05 Similarly, if I can learn how to have a conversation with someone from a different generation that will help me to reduce and let go of the biases that I have created in my mind or the differences that I've played in my mind. What do you think? How can we encourage intergenerational exchanges in an organisation that might allow the organisation to create a more conducive culture? 30:32 Intergenerational communication in an organisation can be stimulated in a number of ways. Number one, it begins with a mentorship and mentorship where perhaps older, more experienced employees are able to pass on knowledge and wisdom about the institution, about life about business. And you reverse that where the younger generation who understands technology adopts that senior executive older person in the organisation teaches them about the technologies, it could be something as simple as their actual mobile device, the the computer, that tablet, or it becomes, hey, here are the tools we use these applications that facilitate effective communication across the organisation. So this communication tool for instant messaging, this tool that we use for posting content, that any prior years may have been done it through pen and paper, here's how we have it instantly. And here's how we keep this in a repository that we can always access. And this becomes our knowledge base where we all can grow, because part of the advantage of having five generations in the workforce is the gift to tuition on Capitol. And when they leave when they retire, that goes away. But by getting them to use the central portal, you are able to keep that access in house and create a bigger collective brain for collective intelligence for co creation. What a beautiful analogy, I think the store that you're talking about is the knowledge base that we're talking about, unless we promote that will not be able to keep the knowledge in the organisation. And tomorrow it might create a breakdown. 32:19 Yes. 32:22 And are there any systems and processes that we need to bring in the organisation? Or is there any mental shift that we need to talk about any special toolkit? What's your take? 32:33 Well, mentorship has is one of the oldest ways of passing on knowledge. We're somewhat senior teacher, someone else, there's tools for that now. But the traditional way of just the the transfer of knowledge from from Head to Heart, via oral communication, through showing physically tactile still exists obviously, then, of course, you can use technology apps. As the saying goes, there's an app for that says after all that as well. But then there's the importance of understanding the difference a mentorship and sponsorship. Mentorship is that person passing on that direct knowledge, but they may not be able to open the door to get you where they taught you what you can do. That's where a sponsor, someone more senior comes in that person who's in the room, you're not when the decisions are being made. That brings up your name that promotes you, that sells you that speaks for you. You need both you need a Sponsor and a Mentor. Now, both of those are uniquely different from my coach. Yes, you still need to be successful. 33:41 The most successful black woman on Wall Street, Carla Harris, she says you can go a long time in your career without having a mentor when she won't go anywhere without a sponsor. 33:53 And so I would footnote what she says to say, you won't go anywhere without a coach as well. 34:00 And that brings me to a question. 34:04 What trades do I need to look for when I'm looking for a coach? What trade should I be looking for when I'm looking for a mentor? What trade should I be looking for when I'm looking for a sponsor? 34:16 I think the traits are unique to each individual where you will feel comfortable where you're going to feel chemistry. But uniquely 34:25 I would perhaps say I'm sorry that uniquely universally, what many people perhaps want is someone who has the credential. 34:33 Now for some the credential means they have a formal credential as a coach, where they've gotten a vast exam, both written and performance through an organisation like the international coaching Federation. For others, it may be that they've got the credential of coaching just because they have life experience where there may or may be a senior HR professional or a director in the organisation who's not certified but they're using a coaching approach for 35:00 All their interactions with the employees. In fact, the programme I used to teach at the Association for Talent Development, or ATD. That's what I promoted. We were teaching people who weren't certified coaches, but they were directors, senior vice presidents and such in organisations. They were leaders who wanted to have a coaching approach. They want to be a coach, first leader second, recognising that active listeners, those who are curious, those who help other people figure out the problem versus telling the answer will be far more successful than those taking the traditional approach to leadership. 35:42 And what traits would you look for a mentor and a Sponsor 35:47 and a Mentor and a mentor looking for someone who's who's done it before? Someone who has a coaching approach? sponsor, you're looking for that person that has organisational capital organisational authority, because you need that person who's in the position, and who's willing to then spin that on you. And that's the mentor, they may know what to do, hey, this worked for me, this can work for you. But they don't have the access to get you through the door. That person has position sponsorship, they've got authority, people listen to them, their decision maker or their whip the key decision makers. So you need a person that has that. And now they are take that bet capital spend on you, they're willing to put their good name on you, to get you with a mentor developed you to be able to get Yeah, yeah. What a beautiful analogy, you know, the word sponsor was not available in my dictionary. And I think thank you so much. For me, this is one of the highest 36:43 key takeaways, that coaching and mentors have been playing with that. But I think the way you're bringing in the sponsoring the third element to it, that is really important. 36:53 What according to you, 36:55 that a coach needs to go through? 36:59 Or what is a way that a coach can prepare herself 37:05 to work with multi generational workforce in today's era. 37:12 Coaches can prepare themselves to be able to work with multiple generations, by continuing to grow themselves recognize number one, what generation you're in, and what characteristics we aren't. We don't just label people with broad brushstrokes, if you will. But we want to understand what are the dynamics typically innate to that group, much the way we do with anyone when we're travelling to another country to visit, if I'm gonna go to this country, here's some things I need to know when I go there. So I'm not offending anyone. So as a coach, are we keeping up with the latest white papers released by whatever institution we want to be a part of. So if we were part of the emcc, or the IOC, or IAC, all these different coaching organisations, and by keeping up with the white paper, so by going to the conferences, and by coming here to Ericsson and ex monks, and being a part of these sessions that are held and the great work that Rob and his team are doing across the globe. educating ourselves as coaches is so important, we can't get complacent. Just like we tell our clients, we must keep growing. We must keep leading if we're going to be successful coach, using coach out across generations. Yeah, thank you, Andy for re emphasizing on the need that how it's so important for us as coaches to be on the path of self-development. Be it going internally and exploring your own values, exploring your own biases, your own prejudices and looking at where am I coming from also growing horizontally. 38:44 Continue to add more skill set and read more articles and interact with more coaches. 38:51 Learn from fellow travelers and attend the seminars and attend webinars and be a part of different conferences. Edie, thank you so much for all your insights and sharing video, sharing your your wisdom with our audience. It was an absolute pleasure to have you here, and I look forward to interact with you. Thank you. Thank you, Graham. And for anyone who wants to connect with me on social media, I welcome them to connect with me. Visit linkage inc.com or ask any turner.com and you can contact me get my social links there. 39:27 Thank you so much. Take care. Bye bye