Jordan Harbinger

Intro: Welcome ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast the xMonks Drive. Wishing you all Merry Chirtsmas and a very Happy New Year 2023. I am your host Gaurav Arora and our today’s guest is Jordan Harbinger. Jordan is one of the most celebrated podcaster in the World and hosts “The Jordan Harbinger Show,” where he interviews leading entrepreneurs, celebrities, writers and experts about psychology, performance, life and success. For all his work in the field, Forbes named Jordan one of the 50 best relationship-builders in the world. Without wasting much of your time, let’s take a dive and listen to his views on what makes him who he is, podcasting, and networking. Outro: What a beautiful conversation it was. BTW, what are your key learnings, reflections and insights. Do share them with me @ gauravinspires@gmail.com. Please do take time to rate the podcast and leave a review on either spotify or itunes and I look forward to meeting you again next week with another interesting conversation. Till then stay tuned 00:03 Thank you so much, Jordan, such a pleasure having you here. can't believe that I have the Jordan Harbinger on my show. 00:11 I appreciate the opportunity, man, I think it's fun, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a fun morning for me and a good evening for you, hopefully, 00:17 looking forward. There's no other way when I know the master is in front of me, somebody that I've looked up to somebody that I've learned a lot from somebody that I have heard so that I can speak like you, I can ask questions like you, I can introduce the guest the way you do, the way you speak, the way you take pauses the way you create space. I'm sure I'm in a good space. 00:41 I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Yeah, I think this is, it's always nice to have sort of recognition for those kinds of things. And I'm grateful that you that you wanted to take the time and the opportunity to speak with me. 00:55 Thank you, Jordan, there's enough and more written about you. There's enough and more spoken about you than that you are the masterful mindful connector that you are the way you build connections and this kind of work that you've done the body of work that you have been able to accumulate for yourself. I'll talk about everything. There's so many questions that I want, I would want to ask you. But before that, if I may ask you, who is Jordan? Without his titles? 01:29 Yeah, it's funny, because I've tried to think, am I a different person? Maybe not offline, but outside of talking into a microphone. And, you know, I think the best person to probably answer that would be my wife, right? Because one of the reasons that she said we met up initially was she goes, I wanted to see if he was like, he was on the show in real life. And one of the one of the things that people often say, which I think is a pretty good compliment, actually, is they say, wow, you're pretty much exactly the same person, in real life as you are on your show, which is really, really nice to hear. Because it would be I guess it when you're on when you're on a show you're performing. But you want to be as I mean, I anyway, want to be as authentic as possible. And authenticity is a word that's probably overused a lot. But I, of course, I want to be, I want to bring as much of my natural personality to the show as possible. I think that's probably a good idea. And it certainly makes things easier than trying to have a fake personality, and then over here, real personality. And so kind of what you what you see is what you get, in many ways. What's funny, what's ironic, I guess, as well is, people will say, people who meet me in real life go, wow, you're actually funnier and a little bit more off the wall in real life than you are on the show, which you would think it would be the other way around. You know, you see those comedy podcasts with comedians and stuff, and like on their podcast, they're laughing and they're goofing around. And then they go back to their normal life, and they have a normal life. For me, it's almost the opposite. You know, I'm kind of like, more serious on the show, try to take this question, seriously answer with respect to the writer and my advice shows, make sure that I've done my homework with the guests that I'm interviewing, and then off the show, I'm much more goofy and funny. And so I try to, I'm actually still in the process of bringing more of my relaxed humour, personality into the podcast itself, which is kind of funny. I think most people do this backwards, right? They've got their persona on the show. And they're like, Man, I wish I could be in real life as funny and zany as I am on my podcast. And it's usually from like, for me, it's the other way around. It's just sort of a strange phenomenon. Yeah, 03:43 yeah. Thank you, Jordan, for bringing that. Jordan, I personally believe the way you have been nurtured you have been fostered in your childhood that plays a very vital role in helping you become who you become, in shaping your personality in picking up the traits that you have picked up. Just curious, any of the traits that you picked up from your childhood that continues to guide you today as well. 04:08 Hmm. What can you give me an example of what that might be? 04:14 Oh, it could be you know, very early in my life, if I look at, I was taught that we don't belong to an affluent family. We don't belong to that league. And that league is very different from the middle cloud, the lower middle class time that I was born into. It continued to shape me for the longest period of time, and then one day, it was as if life screaming in my ears, asking me to bring a shift. But for the longest bit of time, it shaped me. At the same time. I always have always remembered my sister, my elder sister to be very, very generous to me. And I realised the only way to live a life is from a space of generosity. And that I picked up those traits from my elder sister. And today when I see myself being kind to people be generous. I know it's a gift that I got from my elder sister. So, 05:11 yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I think there's a lot of programming probably that I took from my childhood, I guess I would call it sort of programming, right, like, first of all, my dad worked a tonne. So he gave me a really good work ethic. But also, he worked too much. So now I'm like, Okay, I've got to balance, I got to do the work life balance thing. But I also saw, he kind of, I won't say he was abused at work or anything. I mean, he, you know, he was one of the managers over at Ford Motor Company in Detroit. But my mom was a little bit taken advantage of and abused at work. And so she ended up retiring early, she was a public school teacher, they just treat those people terribly here in the United States generally. And so I realised, okay, I've got to have a good work ethic. But I also have to stand up for myself. And then also, I knew early, I figured out early on that the systems that were set up by let's say, the public school system, where it's like, you go to class, you study this, you get good grades, you go to a college, you study this, then you get a job, and you work your way up the ladder, I realised kind of early on that a lot of those systems, they didn't, they were set up for everyone. And I was different than a lot of people. So I was always going to have a hard time inside those systems, if that makes sense. So I realised kind of early, that I probably should find ways around those, those barriers and guidelines. They're great if you are just like everyone else, if you're in the middle of the pack, if you're at the bottom of the pack, right. But if you're sort of a divergent thinker, which is was not necessarily rewarded in a public school in the United States. That was actually not a terrible thing. And I remember like my science teachers and things like that saying, Oh, that's interesting, you thought of this problem this way, you did it backwards, but not in then they would say that, that's good. You worked backwards. Nobody's done that before very few people do. And I felt like that's pretty interesting that I keep getting the same feedback that I'm working on something backwards, so that I did everything at once, instead of going in order. And that was a different way to solve the problem. And, you know, some of my teachers really didn't like that. But other teachers were like, don't lose that quality. That's, that's not a bad quality you've got there. That's actually pretty clever, you know, something along those lines. And so I realised early on, there's more than one way to skin a cat, as we say, in the United States. Nobody skins cats. I don't know why they they say that it's, it's actually really gross. It must, must have been something else 100 years ago. Yeah. But they, the idea is, there's more than one way to solve a problem. And often the the way that everyone is taught to solve a problem is only good because it's easy to teach 20 Kids, the same thing the same way, it's not necessarily the best way to do something, here's an example. This is a dumb example. But it's an example. Nonetheless, when I was in kindergarten, which is what comes before first grade in the United States. They were teaching us how to tie our shoes, and I was had trouble paying attention, I couldn't really do it. And there was an easy way to do it. And there was a hard way to do it. And the hard way was you make two bows, and you crossed the bows and you pull the bows. The Easy Way was you make one bow, you wrap the other one around that and then you just pull the end through. And I couldn't do the hard way. And it was because I found it no value in remembering how to do something the hard way, when there was an easy way to do the exact same thing that had the exact same result that was easier to remember. And was just easier for other reasons. And so the teacher finally reluctantly, I was the last kid in the class to learn how to tie his shoes. And I remember she was like, This is so stupid. It's so easy. Why don't you know this? I can't believe you don't know that. Just really shaming me. And I said, if there's a hard way and an easy way, why don't I just do it the easy way and she goes fine, close enough, whatever. And she got so angry. But she still gave me the sticker that says I can tie my shoes. And I just thought that was kind of funny, but also kind of crappy because I remember thinking how rigid are you and you're thinking, when you have a kindergartener in front of you. You're teaching him how to get something done. He does it, but he doesn't do it the exact way that you want him to. And there's no reason to do it that way. It's not like this harder way builds on something and then it did he can do it. Like it's just there's an easy way and there's a hard way and they both lead to the exact same place. And there's never anything more advanced than that from that skills. It's just like, you have to do it that way. And I just, I was the kid who always refused to do it that way, if I didn't know why something needed to be done, I wasn't going to do it. It didn't matter what it was. And school did not. They hated that. But my mom was like, You know what? Whatever, you know, he can read at a third grade level at a kindergarten, but he can't tie his shoes the hard way. Which one of these things is more important? What have you noticed? It's just very frustrating for me as a kid. And I realised at some point, you know, school was fond of saying, when you get to the real world, you're gonna have to do everything a certain way. And I thought, Oh, I'm gonna be in real trouble when I get out of school. And I have to do everything a certain way. Well, it turns out that divergent thinkers now are called entrepreneurs, and they run their own business, and they're much more economically and financially successful than people who did everything the way they were taught. 10:47 Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Thank you so much, Jordan. And we are just five to seven minutes in the conversation. And you've already delivered a million dollar value to all our audience specially when they are, when they are picking up the right way to be a effective parent, there is no right way to be an effective parent, right? As much as the children are learning to pick up the threads of the game, even parents are learning to pick up the threads of the game. Now, just curious. As a child, did you have that kind of clarity? Because on one hand, a lot of pressure is coming from teachers, that this is the right way to do something. You have to do something in this way. How did Jordan of that young age? Deal with the scenario? What was going on in young Jordan's mind? 11:39 Yeah, this is I mean, I would say it's kind of, it's unfortunate that at the time, I was just thinking like, Oh, I'm not doing this, right. The teacher is mad at me. Whatever it is, right? I mean, she, they weren't really, they weren't super happy about me doing things differently. But I, at the time, I didn't really care, I probably didn't put much thought into it. I was more listening to their warning that whenever I was going to get out of school, I was going to be in deep trouble because I wasn't doing things the way they taught me not,how to do. But I still tried to keep in mind that the science teachers thought this was good. A lot of the other teachers thought, hey, whatever works for you is good. You know, whatever works for you to learn. This is fine. But yeah, I was dreading getting a job. Because I thought if this school if doing things in school, is this tough for me, but I was I was still a good student, you know, I still got A's and B's. So I was still a good student. It was just really hard for me. I just remember thinking, if, if, if this is this hard now and then when I get out later, am I always going to have to fight, climb uphill, like I am now it's always going to be not in my nature to do things the right way. So I was kind of terrified. Actually, I wasn't like, Oh, I'm I'm ahead of the curve. I was thinking like, I'm screwed later, this is going to be bad. 13:07 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And why am I asking you this question? Because at times as parents, as teachers as elders, we tend to put extra pressure on children without realising there's a lot going on in their mind, which they might not be able to process at that point in time. But just remember the kind of dent that might create in the years to come.Jordan Just taking one step deeper, because that would love to know more about Jordan. Fast forward Jordans life. Now, Jordan is a host of a podcast, one of the pioneers in the space of podcasting. And he came up with the concept called The Art of Charm. And he's hosting a show how did you come up with the concept of podcasting so early? And why the Art of Charm? 13:59 Sure, so actually, I'm not allowed to mention the Art of Charm because I sued you know, we sued each other. And there's a thing there so I can we edit that out? And then I'll just talk about my current show. Do you want to rephrase the question we'll just talk about like the Jordan Harbinger show and I'll sort of mentioned that I had a different show before but I can't mention my name. 14:16 Sure. Sure. Super. So what was that moment, Jordan when you decided to choose podcasting as something that you would like to invest your time? 14:32 Yeah, cuz I was pretty early in the game. And nobody in their right mind was thinking, Oh, podcasting is going to be a good thing. You know, later, like, this is gonna be a big thing, a big deal. Nobody ever thought that. And there's a reason for that. It was a very small sort of fledgling industry. It was very sort of niche and nerdy back in the day. And I originally was teaching a sort of an elective course, which means like an extra class about networking at my law school, and nobody really cared. And it had a very small amount of people taking it. I was recording lectures, and they weren't even lectures, they were sort of informal talks. And more and more people started to get interested in the class because I was talking about body language nonverbal communication, and yada, yada. And so people would tell their friends about it. And they would send their friends to, to learn from me and they would show up and they'd say, Hey, what did I miss in The last three weeks? So I started recording what I was talking about. I would burn it to CDs, somebody would come in, I would say, okay, no questions the first day, take these recorded conversations, and come back next week, and you'll be all caught up. And people started to keep the CDs and they were like, This was really good. I gave it to my brother, this is really good. Can I have a copy of this. So I started to sort of sell them for five, and then 10, and then 20 bucks. And then when they were for sale, people would say, Okay, I need five. And I'm like, I'm not in the business of selling you this. It's a deposit, you know, I want you to bring it back. And people didn't want to they wanted to buy it. And I thought, Okay, I'm not gonna get rich selling these CDs. I really just want mass distribution. I'm not trying to mail these to people, et cetera. So a friend of mine said, why don't you put them on the internet somehow. And this is before YouTube. There was no Spotify. Of course, there was no sound. What's the place where you can upload a SoundCloud? There was none of that existed. And so I was just trying to find a place to put up my mp3 lectures. And my friends suggested podcasting. So we rented a server from GoDaddy or something like that, uploaded the mp3 files and made them available on a WordPress website. And we started to see people downloading the show from Gauteng, South Africa and Toronto, and California and New York, and Germany. And we're like, Who are these people? And how are they finding this? You know, it's in the iTunes directory, but are people really looking in there and they sure enough, they were they were these tech guys were kind of looking in there. And the show got this tiny little cult following, almost, you know, it was very, very interesting to see. And I thought we're onto something, when people in South Africa or whatever, are listening to the show, when people in other countries are downloading this and listening to it. And then I started to realise, okay, if I'm, I didn't want to, I didn't set out to make a show, maybe I should turn it into a show, because that's kind of what we have on our hands, right, as people are interested in seeing this or hearing this, I should say. And so I started to turn it into more of a Hangout kind of thing, and talk about these same topics and make it a little bit more entertaining. And so when I was doing that, I realised that now people were sharing it, and people are treating it like a show and writing in and talking. And that to me was really fun and interesting. Because it turned into instead of me lecturing or talking to people, it ended up as almost a an extended conversation. And that was really sort of magical. And I remember thinking, and again, this is before Twitter, everything. So I remember thinking like, wow, this is really like there's global influence here that you can't get on the radio or even television for that matter, unless you have some sort of international show, which almost nobody did. So I thought the power of the internet here is really something this is 2006. So the internet's not new new. But there weren't influencers, there were there weren't really people on Facebook that had outsized influence, or anything like that. We were kind of in the forefront of that. 18:55 Yeah. And as they say, after that you never stopped and the rest is history. 19:00 Yeah, that's exactly the rest is history. On several 19:03 episodes. As you mentioned that you have always been a divergent thinker. You have thrown bombs, right, the bombs of wisdom here and then, in one of the conversation, you mentioned that it's extremely important for all of us to find meaning and purpose, which according to you are two different things. So we need to find meaning and purpose in everything that we do. That's one statement. Another statement that you mentioned is there are certain philosophies, which could be applicable. Few years back may not be the best advice that you would offer to anyone for example, you should not always follow your passion. Now, if I bring these two philosophies together, one is find purpose and meaning in everything that you do. Second one, following your passion is not the best advice. How would you process these two statements together? 19:58 Yeah, so following your passion And a lot of people think well wait, you need passion to be successful. I agree with that. It doesn't mean you follow your passion, it means you bring your passion with you, wherever you are. And that's sort of lost on a lot of people, right? It's not I gotta follow my dreams I want to be I want to be famous on the internet. You know, a lot of people do that. Not a lot of people succeed at that. Even the people that succeed at that don't necessarily make a good living doing that. It's not necessarily emotionally healthy. But somebody who says, you know, I, I just really like, I don't know, working with my hands. And then they are they really like gardening? So they end up doing let's say, they start a landscaping business. Well, okay, this isn't really what they had in mind. They're not they're cutting other people's grass. No, I wanted to grow exotic plants in my own backyard. Okay. But what if you what if you bring that passion with you? And suddenly, you're, you're creating that landscaping company, and you're saying, if this is my yard, what would I want? Okay, I want my landscape guys to say, you know, to customers, maybe they'd say, hey, you know, you've got this really nice walkway, and you've got these woodchips next to it. What about some exotic plants, my boss, you know, he loves exotic plants, he would come over and give you an estimate. Now, you know, you're bringing your passion with you. Yeah, you're having your guys cut other people's lawns, maybe that's not what you had in mind, when you're bringing your passion with you, and you're visiting your customers, you know, once every few months, and you're saying, you know, what would look great, here's a couple of orchids or whatever, I don't know, palm tree. So now you're really bringing your passion for designing your own yard, taking care of your own plants, and you're bringing it to your customers, you're going to be very successful doing that your customers are going to know that you care, you're going to make extra money upselling trees and plants, you're going to be the only landscaper that seems to actually care what the end result of the yard is other than just turning on the leaf blower and cutting the lawn, you know, you're going above and beyond. That's what I mean by bringing your passion with you. Or maybe you wanted to be a some kind of aerospace engineer, but you end up working on tractors and farm equipment. Okay, maybe that's not what you had in mind. But what if you bring that passion for next level technology and engineering, and you start designing, I don't know smart tractors that can run without a human operator. That's a billion dollar idea. And, and those exist, by the way, but the reason that's a billion dollar idea is because somebody's over at John Deere, or whatever the big tractor manufacturers are in the world. And that's the only one I know of said, what if we take the stuff that goes in satellites, and we put it in a tractor? And somebody went, that's probably not a bad idea? Sure. cellular connectivity, why not? Let's do it. And they made a self driving tractor, right? This is the, there's a decade ahead of Tesla, right? And in self driving cars, and they did that because somebody had the foresight, to bring their passion with them and decide to innovate in the space. And so those that's why those people are so successful. But I guarantee I almost guarantee you that the person who came up with that idea to put that in a tractor was not necessarily just passionate about tractors, that they probably had other ideas when they went to school. You never know. But I, you know, I kind of doubt it, I kind of doubted the the person who came up with that was just a tractor enthusiast. 23:22 You know, since we are talking about your podcast, and if you look at today, right,from when you started, there were very few podcasts, and very few podcasters. Today, there are hundreds and 1000s of podcasts. There are so many, probably a million YouTube channels. What do you think? What keeps shows like yours stand apart today as well? 23:48 You know, I've of course asked myself that all the time, I would say that I look, all I can do is kind of speculate on this, right? I mean, I I can only say well, my show is good, because XYZ, but am I am I right? That's the question. I don't know, we may not be able to answer that question. I think the reason my show stands out is because I work harder than a lot of interviewers do. When I interview say an author. When I talk to a lot of people that I've interviewed in the past, they'll say, you know, you and one other person are the only people in my entire media tour, who read the book. And I'm thinking, really, that's pretty bad, because you probably did 100 interviews for your book, you know? Or they'll say, You and a few other people are the only people that wanted to interview me for longer than 15 minutes. And the reason is because I had more preparation and notes than the other person. And some of my friends who've written books will say, Yeah, I would say a small percentage like less than a third or less than a quarter of the people that did an interview even had notes and thinking, how is that possible? So I out, prepare and outwork other hosts, it's not really a talent thing. It's not really, you know, a natural this, that and the other thing, it's really that I am able to over prepare and outwork other hosts, because I put it in the time. So you, people might say, like, Oh, you're funny, or you're talented, or you're great at asking questions, or whatever it is. I hope that that stuff is true. But the real reason that my interviews, at least in the beginning stood out is because I did more. And I still do more, to prepare and to work. And that the good news is, anybody can do that. Right? Like, you don't have to be if somebody said, Why, why is your comedy show? I don't have a comedy show. But let's say I did. Why is your comedy show so addictive? It would be well, I'm just a really funny guy. That's hard to do. But if you just want to replicate some of the success that somebody else, like me has, you can already get 90% of the way there, or 80% of the way there by coming to the table prepared for the interview in the first place. And that's good news. That's real good news. Because that means that you're just a few extra hours of prep for your interview away from being in the I don't know, 90th percentile. 26:22 Jordan isn't it the basic isn't the least isn't that the least that you can do for you in a conversation? 26:29 Yeah, you would think that would be the least you could do, I don't really understand why people why more people do not do this. I think it must have to do with some of its certainly is sort of ego and arrogance and thinking like, oh, I can wing this conversation, because I used to do that to you know, years and years and years ago, I was like, I don't need to read the book. I can just wing it, I can just have the conversation and come up with a few starter questions. And so and a lot of hosts, most hosts, they do that. So there's some there's something to that. But yeah, I mean, I would say that sort of table stakes is at least knowing the work of the person that's sitting in front of you at the time. That seems like it's probably a really good idea. I'm not sure why more people don't do that. I think that it's because they've gotten away with it for so long, that they feel that they don't need to, or they think I'm going to talk about all totally different set of topics with this person. So I'm just not going to read the book, because I'm not going to talk about what's in the book anyway. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around that kind of mindset. But that has to be it. The other elements of success are consistency. And that's that's another thing that's very replicable, right. I've done this show for or some podcast, some iteration, the first, you know, this current iteration to five years old, my previous podcast ran for 11 years. So I've done podcasts for 16 years. You don't have to go for 16 years. But if you go for several years, and you're releasing stuff every week, that snowballs into attention and a loyal audience, and that is something else that's replicable. Just keep showing up. Right? It's you don't have to be super funny or super talented or super lucky. You really just have to show up and be prepared. And just keep doing that. And you will be able to eke out your niche. Certainly some people are very fortunate, you know, they start a podcast, they're really talented comedian. They go on a couple of really big shows Joe Rogan loves them or something like that. So they get their first million followers are half a million followers that way, and it just takes off on YouTube, or whatever it is. That's great. But that's a combination of luck, preparation and talent as well. You know, they're not just going to show up completely unprepared with nothing to offer and end up with that kind of luck. They have to have the other pieces in place first as well. Yeah, 28:55 yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jordan, for bringing that. Jordan, one of the questions, I'm going to pick up one of your questions that you asked another guest on your show. Sure. And I'm going to add one bit to that as well. So the question is, I'll read it as is. You have interviewed few of the best brains in the world from different walks of life from different geographies. What's the best piece of advice that you have received? Now? I'm not going to stop here? Let me re state the question. You have interviewed few of the best brains in the world from different background from different geographies. What's the best piece of advice have you received that you have not been able to implement in your life 29:41 that I have not been able to implement in my life? 29:45 Not been able to implement in your life? 29:48 Good question. I'm pretty sure that was There's so much I'm pretty sure that the best piece that I haven't not been able to implement in my life is gonna be one of those that's like, let go of the attachment of being successful and those kinds of things, you know what I mean? Like, let go of the results and just enjoy the process. And I'm like, Okay, I enjoy the process. But I also want the results. And, but so many guests are like, just let go of this. And you know, Ego is the Enemy. And I'm like, I know, but also I kind of want this thing to work out for me. Because ego I get it, you know, like, I hear it. The advice is going in one year, it's not going out the other, but it's not also really taking root in my brain. Yeah. 30:38 You know, the moment you said that, you know, Jim Rohn said, knowing something is one thing. feeling in your body, what you know, is another, totally. And when you were sharing, let go identify that ego, let go of that ego. Go to the vantage point and look at from the perspective of a butterfly. Watch what's happening inside you the story that you're creating for yourself and let go. When you were speaking that Jim Rohn came in front of me, you know what, knowing something is one thing Gaurav. And feeling what you know, is another thing so I know exactly what you're talking about. 31:22 It's it's something that I think probably haunts plenty of us. It's like it really you do want it to, you do want it to take root, you kind of know, it's true. So many smart people have told you and yet here we are. 31:45 And as I'm listening to you, I'm just going deep within my own self, I think there's a battle going on between my ego, my need to be heard my need to be visible, my need to be recognised. And another part of me who is crying to live a life from a space of purpose. So there's a dichotomy between fear and ego, and purpose. Jordan, you are one of the most recognised podcasters in the world. In my eyes, you are the celebrity. And I said, when I, when I was spoken, when I was speaking to you before this podcast, I said, let me just pinch myself. How do you manage the grounding self, the grounded individual that you are? And the celebrity status? 32:44 Yeah, interesting question. I think it's probably pretty easy to well, actually, I trimmed my use of social media down to pretty much nothing. You know, I think the last post I have on Instagram is probably like my wife's pregnant or something like that. And that now she's my daughter's a year old. So that's at least 18 months ago. And maybe there's something else in between it, I can't remember what it is. So I don't post on there. I only use Twitter to answer fans who tweeted me, I only use Instagram to look at people who tagged me in things or to answer direct messages on there. I don't have tik tok. I don't read YouTube comments. I don't post things on What I'm probably missing some other social media that I can't even think of. I don't really use that stuff. Because it's sort of instant validation. And you end up looking at your likes, you know, it's like from Facebook 20 years ago, like I'm looking at my likes, why didn't this get more likes, I don't look at any of that stuff. I don't pay attention, any of that stuff. And so with podcasts, the feedback is pretty few and far between, you know, you get a couple of reviews every week, you get a couple of emails every day. But it's really hard to give somebody feedback in that type of format. That space. Yeah, YouTube, it's so easy. Twitter, it's so easy. That's why you see a lot of trolls in those spaces, too, because it's really easy to just make an anonymous account and be like You're fat or whatever, to the person who posted something. So I don't really I don't have that feedback loop. I purposely broke that feedback loop of posts something, get attention, get validation. I purposely broke that because I found myself wanting to feed it over and over and over again. And I just thought this isn't really healthy. I'm getting a bunch of feedback from strangers, good and bad. It's stressful. Like, who cares? Who cares about this? So I purposely broke that feedback loop. And occasionally, you know, once a month or so I'll be walking around the mall. I don't leave my house that much because I got two little kids, but I'll be walking around the mall and someone will say like Jordan Harbinger. Oh my gosh, can I take a picture? and that's fun, and it's unique. And it's a good experience. But it doesn't happen so often, you know, if I had a social media following, and I was posting on there all the time, and it was very active there, and it was as large as my podcast is, that would probably be pretty bad for me, because I would be constantly dealing with people like that. And I would be constantly trying, probably trying to structure my life to get validation or approval from strangers. And I think that's what makes famous people so miserable. One of the things that makes famous people so miserable is that. 35:33 yeah, what I'm picking up is that be mindful of what are the feed feedback channels that you have around you? And which one would you like to appreciate? And entertain? Which one? Would you like to cut the cord from? 35:48 Yeah, exactly. Because like, I think a lot of people, unfortunately, what they do is they, they create a feedback channel like social media, and they're constantly feeding this corporate machine, so that they can get feedback from strangers. But they do, they're doing that during time they could be spending with their kids. And it's like, so you're taking time away from your kids, who had give you feedback about being a parent, being a mentor in their life being a, you know, person that they love being dad, whatever it is, and you're trading that for making tik tok videos, where strangers give you feedback, and validation. And it just seemed like a really dumb trade for me to do that. So the podcast for me now is read books, talk to smart people, Fridays, give advice, you know, whatever it is. That's it. It's not, oh, what's currently trending on tik tok, let me make a video that follows that trend. And then my team will optimise it and get it. Because a lot of people will say, Oh, you don't have to worry about that you hire a team and they post for you. But you're just kidding yourself when you do that. People who do that I think are just lying to themselves, you know, oh, my team does that. Okay, so you just don't check anything on those social platforms? Are you sure? And if you don't check anything on there, what's it really doing for your business? Nothing? You know, not really, anyway, so I'm always highly sceptical of that. I think the only exceptions are, let's say you do LinkedIn posts, and you're a corporate speaker, and that's your business. Okay? Now you're maybe generating leads, you're staying in people's minds, you know, you're building your brand there, you still shouldn't check that social media, your team should do that. But I understand, you know, like, why Adam Grant or Simon Sinek, post on LinkedIn. But when I, when I see those guys in other formats, I or if I were to see those guys in other formats, I would have to ask myself, What good is this really doing? Outside of feeding the ego, you know, is it really important for you to be on tik tok. Is that really where you need to be seen? I don't know. I don't think 37:55 so. Yeah, Now I think that is where keeping a check on your ego is extremely important, Jordan and I personally believe that I'm talking about myself 98% of the things I do just to feed my ego 98 personal things. And if I look at if I just take a pause, why I do what I do, why I eat, what I eat, why I wear what I wear, why I speak the way I speak. It pins down to feeding into my ego. And that's where I consciously need to work on myself that can I bite one, one one one small bite from my ego and throw it away? One small bite from my ego and throw it away. It's a long journey. I know it. And as you mentioned that there are so many people feel the best brains in the world have advised you that let go of the ego. Is it easy? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. There's so much of fear that I carry within my own self, every single cell of my body experience that's fear that what if I don't have this? What would I be doing instead? Who would I be instead? What would How would I introduce myself instead? So that big question I don't have an answer to. Just taking one step forward and building a bridge between the podcaster who you are, to an authority that you are you are considered to be an authority in terms of building genuine networks, building genuine connections. I’ll just pick up from here itself. You know, bringing people as guests on your show is one thing. Keeping your connection alive. After the interview is another thing. How do you ensure that you continue to add value to those guests of yours, and how do you ensure that they stay connected? 40:07 With you? Yeah, I mean. What's the secret sauce there? Yeah. So for each guest on the show, I add them to maybe a CRM or something like that. And every six months, I'll reach out to that person. And I'll say, hey, you know, the show we did, still getting downloads, or if I see somebody say, all your interview with this person from a year ago is so good. I just used it to get a raise at work. I'll take a screenshot of that, and I'll send it to that guest. And often they'll say, Oh, this is so great that made my day. You know, by the way, I'm working on another book, and it's going to be about this totally different thing. Would you be interested in that? Or, you know, hey, I've got a movie is coming out or something like that, you know, would you be interested in that? And so I do those kinds of things. I don't necessarily call them and invite them to Thanksgiving dinner or something like that, you know, I just sort of try to keep in touch with them a little bit, twice a year. And that's it, you know, hey, our interview just got posted again, by this company, as one of the founders favourites. And they took the clip, and they posted it on their YouTube channel. Thanks again for doing this. Or, you know, hey, I know last time we talked, you said you were working on another book, what's how's the progress on that book? And they'll say, Oh, that's funny. I just wrote an article. It's in Scientific American, here's the link. So just these really, really tiny little touch points. With guests. It takes minutes, you know, really, it just takes a few minutes a day to keep in touch with every single guest that I've had on the show. Ever, pretty much. And some of them never reply. And eventually I'll take them off, you know, if it's somebody who just never replies, or they never even open the email, I mean, they're going to spam or they just don't care. Fine. But most guests are really excited to hear that something went over. Well, you know, I think I think a lot of people, because most people are not in the media spotlight all the time, they did their book tour, and they haven't done anything for two years. So to hear from somebody that they did the show with and hey, people are still using what we talked about. They're like, wow, that's really cool. It's a lasting impact. It's good for somebody who's created something to note to know that. 42:16 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Let's, let's take a deeper dive into connections and networking. When did you realise the importance of building genuine connections? 42:28 I think I probably realised that a long time ago, but I didn't really do anything about it until later in law school, I was going out a lot. And I met this couple at a bar that I went out to, and they were really, really nice. They were super kind. And they would invite us, they would buy us a drink, or they were they were there every like Tuesday night or whatever it was, they would buy us a drink or they would invite us to go to a charity dinner that they were running and I thought like this is a really interesting couple. The guy does real estate in in Ann Arbour, which is where I went to school in Ann Arbour, Michigan. And he'd say, like, hey, come out to the boat this weekend, you know, we're gonna have a lot of really interesting people there. We're gonna have a cocktail party, they must have a big boat. I don't remember if I made it to that. I don't think I did. You know, and then they would invite us to some other dinner and they'd say, Oh, we're going to have a dinner. It's a charity dinner. And I'd say I don't think I can afford to go and they'd say, no, no, no, you guys are free. It's other people that have to pay to go to this charity dinner. And it's like $2,000 a plate and it goes to the American Cancer Society and the chief resident of University of Michigan heart surgery, that chief resident, the chief, whatever chief surgery of surgery or something at the University of Michigan Hospital for cardiac surgery is going to be there. And the dean of admissions for the law school is going to be there. And I felt like, okay, but it started to dawn on me, this person was inviting me to these because she knew that if I was in contact with these people, those are good relationships to have. And I realised she's cultivating these relationships. And she she actually was some sort of princess from Kashmir. In in India, and Pakistan. Yeah, I mean, depending on who you ask, right? And so and so she was already sort of like this well connected, interesting person. And she really valued relationships. And I just thought that's so this is such an interesting way to look at life that I had never really experienced before. Because when you're younger, you think, oh, networking is for old people, or you do it when you need something. And that's kind of it. She just valued connections in every possible every possible niche, every possible industry. She just didn't. She didn't think I need something from this person. She just valued the connection. So that sort of started To create a this is how I started to think about things in a very different way. And that's when I started to think about networking and relationships is something that was really important. And then of course, I brought that into my law job. And I started realising that the partners that we're bringing in business, we're also thinking about connections and relationships in a very different way. They eventually wanted to sell those people legal services, but that wasn't how they went into the interaction or into the relationship. And so I started to take those, and I realised that most successful people I know are the best networked and best connected people. And so I started to sort of think, okay, I don't know how I'm going to do this or leverage this. But there's something here, it's not a coincidence that the most successful people I know, are also some of the best connected. That's not a coincidence. 45:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I personally believe that connection is one of the basic desires of a human soul as much as expression is, and you are in the business of expression, expressing yourself and connection. And of course, the third third, basic desire for human soul, according to me is contribution. So I think, you have a beautiful profession, you are able to express yourself, you're able to connect with you have the best minds and feel the best brains in the world. And of course, you have been able to contribute in the best possible way. Jordan, how has this journey of podcasting shifted you as an individual? What are those fears that have evaporated? What are those gifts that you have been able to nurture for yourself? 46:32 I mean, podcasting has done pretty much everything for me, right, I met my wife through the show have created a bunch of friendships through the show, I have access to some of the smartest, most brilliant people in the world, through the show, created a lot of friendships through the show. It's really just been completely life changing in every way, of course, aside from the fact that it pays for my bills, and my lifestyle, right? I mean, it's just been a very, very valuable thing for me. Also, speaking of Jim Rohn. And he's said, you know, you're only what is it, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with? Sure, that counts your family and things like that. But it seems like this is a really this has been, podcasting has been a really good way for me to spend large amounts of time with people that are highly successful from all over the world. You know, yesterday, I was in Los Angeles, interviewing Apollo Ono, who's the most decorated winter Olympian in the United States. speedskater, you know, fitness guy, super smart, really interesting guy. And then after that, Remy Romani, who's a Egyptologist and on the Discovery Channel, and on National Geographic and talks about ancient Egypt, it's like, you just don't get access to those people Normally. you don't get to sit down and have a conversation with one of those guys for two hours normally. Even if you are super famous, well connected, built gazillionaire, you're probably not going to be in a place where you get to sit down with somebody like that, and have those kinds of conversations for a long period of time, you might go to a party where there's a bunch of fascinating people, but you're not going to sit down with them for two hours each, and have that kind of experience. So my, you only go as high as your five closest friends, you're the average did, my average changes all the time, but it's almost always people who are just extremely high calibre, high quality. And that's been a real blessing, because I'm not just around my office mates of the same folks all the time. Not that there's anything wrong with my team here. But I just mean, I really have a diverse group of people that I get to spend time with on a regular basis. And it's part of my job. And that's just been a real, that's been that's been able, that's allowed me to create a very different kind of way of thinking and a very different kind of life, for myself and for my family. As a result of the show. Yeah, yeah. 48:55 And if something you could shift, you could change within yourself. What would that be? 49:03 Yeah, that's a good sort of a good final question, right? I think if I could change something about myself. I would love to be more content, right? But so the reason I got where I am now is probably because I'm not content with anything. But at some point, you have to learn to be content with what you have. Otherwise, you're just, there's no reason to be perpetually hungry. And to the point where it makes you a little bit unsettled to be still, right. So I need like, I don't want to rest on my laurels, so to speak. But I also don't want to be constantly hungry. You know, it doesn't make any sense. Why am I driving myself crazy? Over this, my wife's always like, you need to work less. You have made it stop. You know, don't stop, stop, but you know, stop striving. Just be and it's very difficult for me to do that. Because what got me here was the opposite of that. But at some point, I really do need to just stop and smell the roses so to speak. That would be that would be something I would change if I could. 50:10 And I think that's a beautiful piece of advice for all of us who are working hard because somewhere deep down, we are hungry. So it's time to take a pause and smell the roses. Yep. Thank you so much, Jordan. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure having you here. Could not ask for anything more. 50:29 I really appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity Gaurav. . Snippet 1 Title— Don't Just Follow, Bring Passion With You Now, if I bring these two philosophies together, one is find purpose and meaning in everything that you do. Second, following your passion is not the best advice. How would you process these two statements together? 19:58 Yeah, so following your passion And A lot of people think well wait, you need passion to be successful. I agree with that. It doesn't mean you follow your passion, it means you bring your passion with you, wherever you are. And that's sort of lost on a lot of people, right? It's not I gotta follow my dreams I want to be I want to be famous on the internet. You know, a lot of people do that. Not a lot of people succeed at that. Even the people that succeed at that don't necessarily make a good living doing that. It's not necessarily emotionally healthy. But somebody who says, you know, I, I just really like, I don't know, working with my hands. And then they are they really like gardening? So they end up doing let's say, they start a landscaping business. Well, okay, this isn't really what they had in mind. They're not they're cutting other people's grass. No, I wanted to grow exotic plants in my own backyard. Okay. But what if you what if you bring that passion with you? And suddenly, you're, you're creating that landscaping company, and you're saying, if this is my yard, what would I want? Okay, I want my landscape guys to say, you know, to customers, maybe they'd say, hey, you know, you've got this really nice walkway, and you've got these woodchips next to it. What about some exotic plants, my boss, you know, he loves exotic plants, he would come over and give you an estimate. Now, you know, you're bringing your passion with you. Snippet 2 Title—The Best Piece Of Advice I think if I could change something about myself. I would love to be more content, right? But so the reason I got where I am now is probably because I'm not content with anything. But at some point, you have to learn to be content with what you have. Otherwise, you're just, there's no reason to be perpetually hungry. And to the point where it makes you a little bit unsettled to be still, right? So I need like, I don't want to rest on my laurels, so to speak. But I also don't want to be constantly hungry. You know, it doesn't make any sense. Why am I driving myself crazy? Over this, my wife's always like, you need to work less. You have made it! Stop. You know, don't stop, stop, but you know, stop striving. Just be and it's very difficult for me to do that. Because what got me here was the opposite of that. But at some point, I really do need to just stop and smell the roses so to speak. That would be that would be something I would change if I could. 50:10 And I think that's a beautiful piece of advice for all of us who are working hard because somewhere deep down, we are hungry. So it's time to take a pause and smell the roses. Snippet 3 Title— Be Mindful of Your Feedback Channels What are the feed feedback channels that you have around you? And which one would you like to appreciate and entertain? Which one would you like to cut the cord from? 35:48 Yeah, exactly. Because like, I think a lot of people, unfortunately, what they do is they, they create a feedback channel like social media, and they're constantly feeding this corporate machine. So that they can get feedback from strangers. But they do, they're doing that during time they could be spending with their kids. And it's like, so you're taking time away from your kids, who had give you feedback about being a parent, being a mentor in their life being a, you know, person that they love being dad, whatever it is, and you're trading that for making tik tok videos, where strangers give you feedback and validation. And it just seemed like a really dumb trade for me to do that. So the podcast for me now is read books, talk to smart people, Fridays, give advice, you know, whatever it is. That's it. It's not, oh, what's currently trending on Tik Tok, let me make a video that follows that trend. And then my team will optimise it and get it. Because A lot of people will say, “Oh, you don't have to worry about that you hire a team and they post for you.” But you're just kidding yourself when you do that. People who do that I think are just lying to themselves, you know, oh, my team does that. Okay, so you just don't check anything on those social platforms? Are you sure? And if you don't check anything on there, what's it really doing for your business? Nothing? You know, not really, anyway, so I'm always highly sceptical of that. I think the only exceptions are, let's say you do LinkedIn posts, and you're a corporate speaker, and that's your business. Okay? Now you're maybe generating leads, you're staying in people's minds, you know, you're building your brand there, you still shouldn't check that social media, your team should do that. But I understand, you know, like, why Adam Grant or Simon Sinek, post on LinkedIn. But when I, when I see those guys in other formats, I or if I were to see those guys in other formats, I would have to ask myself, “What good is this really doing? Outside of feeding the ego?” You know, is it really important for you to be on tik tok. Is that really where you need to be seen? So I don't really I don't have that feedback loop. I purposely broke that feedback loop of posts something, get attention, get validation. I purposely broke that because I found myself wanting to feed it over and over and over again. And I just thought this isn't really healthy. I'm getting a bunch of feedback from strangers, good and bad. It's stressful. Like, who cares? Who cares about this? So I purposely broke that feedback loop.