Alain Hunkins

Intro:// - What is your measure of success? - How do you define Leadership and the connection it has with who you are? Welcome ladies and gentleman, welcome to the podcast the xMonks Drive. I am your host Gaurav Arora and our today’s guest is a leadership expert, an Executive Coach, an Author and a dear friend. Please join me in welcoming Alain Hunkins. I have had the pleasure of knowing Alain for few years now and every single conversation with him has left with with several thoughts to ponder on. Let’s take a dive and explore few important questions around Leadership in the context of an orgasanition and in the context of the world we live in. Outro:// My Key Takeaways from this episode is: “Just reflect on what’s your scoreboard and then what is the practice that you want to develop that is going to help you to achieve the score that you are aiming for” What’s your key take away. I would love to hear from you. Do rate this podcast and leave a comment to help me get better and serve you better. And I look forward to meeting you next week with another interesting conversation. Till then, stay tuned and take care. :) 17:58 Gaurav: Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It's such a pleasure having you all. Let me just quickly take this opportunity to welcome you all. My name is Gaurav Arora and I'm a part of xMonks an ecosystem that brings to you world-class coaches, leaders, experts, thought leaders, business leaders from various walks of life for personal transformation and leadership development. For almost like 13 years we have been doing this and every time when we bring in leaders to share their experiences and what they bring in what they offer is sheer gold. And today is very special because we have gathered today to bring to you somebody I've got high respect for and somebody that I look up to somebody that I follow and I learn a lot from. Ladies and gentlemen today is very special as I mentioned that today why because we are celebrating somebody that as I mentioned as I've got huge respect for and we are celebrating this where it's the master class where somebody who's very special is going to share the wisdom that he has to offer. An author, a celebrated speaker, a leadership development consultant and I can go on and on and on. Ladies and gentlemen before I introduce Alain to you if I may quickly check in which part of the country which part of the world are you dialling in from so just type in the chat box so that I can get to know where you calling from? So let's hear from everyone so Bangalore Delhi, Singapore Trivandrum acuerdo New Delhi Bangalore Israel welcome Israel welcome New Jersey us Spain, Spain, Bangalore New Delhi, Mumbai, Pune a Dubai, Pune, Hyderabad, Kenya welcome Ruth Bombay, Mumbai, Saudi Arabia welcome Saudi Padishah, Hyderabad, Srinagar welcome I'm good Gao Africa, Coimbatore Fantasticks, Dubai, Chennai. So we've got people from all across the world, I think that's the best part about this community. The more we dig deeper, the more we realise that how we are separated because of geopolitical scenarios and get we are connected and we all are talking about coaching and why not coaching is becoming a language to reckon with, be it an external coach or internal coach, be it being a manager, or being a leader, be a team leader, or being a parent, I think coaching is becoming a language to reckon with. And today we have somebody very special as I said, Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming Alain, Alain thank you so much. Such a pleasure having you here. So how are you? What's happening? Which part of the world are you dialing in from today? 20:52 Alain: It's so good to see you Gaurav I welcome. Yeah, good. For me. It's good morning. So I'm calling in today from the United States. I live in Massachusetts, more specifically, a little town called North Hampton about two hours drive west of Boston off of the Atlantic Ocean. But again, like you think you said, it's so well about, you know, we may be separated geopolitically different boundaries. But there is a unification coming together around I'll call it a consciousness a sense of where we are evolving too. So I'm just really excited today to be here with you, and to speak. So thanks. 21:23 Super, thank you so much. And I still remember our conversation on the podcast, ladies and gentlemen, in case you have not heard my podcast with Dylan, I must tell you, you must listen to that. Because that was really fascinating, because we dig really deeper into what does it mean to have the leadership code? And what does it mean to have a leadership code? Or if there is a code called Leadership code? And if there is, how can we decode that? So those are the kinds of conversations that I had with Alan and I think the way he shared his experiencing experiences was fascinating. The examples, the theory, or the wisdom that he brought in, was for me, was pure gold, as I said, so let's take a deeper dive. And also, just to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, Elon is also speaking at our annual conference, the coaching conclave 2022, in case you have not yet registered, I would strongly recommend go register. Because this time, we are bringing in over 70 speakers on a common platform where we are running a 51 hour marathon nonstop, where people are joining in from over 70 countries, Ellen, Ellen, just out of curiosity. How excited are you for the upcoming conference, the coaching conclave 2022 and few of your friends, few of our common friends are talking at that conference. Right? So what's your take? 22:48 Well, I think it's I mean, I'm hats off to you, girl for the amazing way that you've kind of brought this together and the idea of 55 hours straight. I know, I couldn't sit through 55 hours. I mean, hopefully people will take some rest in there. I know. But this, I mean, to me, what it shows is that one of the things I'm so excited to be a part of this is, you know, the fact that you can have such volume. And the fact is there's going to be value in every single one of those hours shows me that our ability to take ideas like we can hear them a lot. Yeah, I get that. But our ability to really to really embrace ideas, and to live them is a lifelong challenge. Right. So I would say it's a lot easier to talk about leadership than it is to lead, it's a lot easier to talk about personal development than to do it, it's a lot easier to talk about coaching than to coach well. And so my hope is that people can show up, and, you know, show up and not just show up with a mindset of, oh, here's the thing I never heard before, check it off the list. But wow, like, what can I take from this and not just take what am I going to apply tomorrow, because I'm a huge fan of the idea of small wins. And that, you know, I think we tend to underestimate what we can accomplish in let's say, a year's time, we tend to overestimate what we can do in a day or two. We are creatures of habit. And so my hope is that you get a lot of ideas, and then give yourself a nice long runway to start applying these things and pick the ones that are the most important for you. So that's where I would go. Yeah, I'm super, super excited to be with with you for this. 24:21 Thank you. Alain, you know what, I remember our first conversation, which was like, a couple of years back, and then we had a series of conversations. Of course, we had the great pleasure of having you on our podcast and the seeds of the competition that we have discussed, right? I think something that stayed with me, and I'll tell you why. Because, one of the philosophies for the longest period of time. I've been dabbling with the space of coaching and leadership development for 16 years now. For the longest bit of time, I've heard myself saying who you are is how you coach. And interestingly, one of our initial conversations, you mentioned, how you lead is who you are. And I could see that how they come together would love to hear from you. In a world where we live in, where people are evaluated based on their performance and the results that they achieve? How do you define the concept of who you are? And how does that impact your performance? 25:31 This is such a good question. So as you say that what comes to mind is I use an analogy because you asked the question, and you said, in a world in which we are evaluated by our performance, and I think maybe the clearest analogy for all of us, is professional sport, right, because in professional sports, they say you're only as good as your last game. And there's metrics you either win or you lose, you have more score. So it's very easy to measure the results, right. So that's, and again, if you're not a big sports fan, I'm not trying to be exclusive here, I just think it's a very simple analogy we can all relate to. So we think about that in sports. So what we see is game time, what we do not see are the, you know, at a professional or Olympic level, we do not see the hours and hours and hours of training of coaching. And the fact is some people embrace the practice, the internal work of development, to get to the playing stage, or the playing field and coaching and in sports, I should say, more than others, right? So obviously, like I'm a recreational athlete, so I may go out and run a couple times a week, ride my bike, lift weights once every so often. But if I was a professional, I can tell you I have a much more rigorous practice regime. So I share all that, because we're all measured in terms of the score. First of all, I think it's important for each of us to decide, what game are we playing? Who's keeping score? Do we care who's keeping score, because a lot of people and I meet lots of people, you know, I work in the corporate world, and there's a lot of people who go through and I think you and I had this conversation, you know, they kind of go onto the track, and they're, you know, they go through university, they start in their 20s. And they're like, oh, I have to be successful. And what successful really means is, I need to get a powerful job that earns a lot of money, that gives me status, and then I will be happy, right? That's the kind of the story they've told themselves. And I've met, I cannot tell you how many people I've met who kind of go along that track, and many of them accelerate, accelerate, accelerate. And they get to, let's say, their mid-30s, early-40s. They've gotten a lot of this stuff, they've achieved these outward performance goals. And I think you and I, and I say they've discovered there's a hole in the soul, right? It's that sense of, Oh, I've got here, but it hasn't made me any happier. And so as I think and I ask all of us to consider, first of all, what is your scoreboard, and then if your scoreboard is about living a life of and it may not be money, it may not be, you know, outward trappings of success, fancy cars, and jewellery, whatever, it doesn't have to be that, in fact, I hope that you decide what it is for you. And certainly, those are not the things that drive my life. And so the question I would ask is, once you figure out, what is the result that you want, so if you want to be a kind person, a person of service, a person who feels love, and security, and also is of service to others, and in doing so because they say the fastest way and the research shows this too, the fastest way to be happy, is to make other people happy. And then that's, there's tonnes of research on that. So if that is the scoreboard that you measure, then you have to ask yourself, so what are the exercises that I'm doing every day, because that is not going to happen on its own. Just that doesn't happen. You know, Olympic-level athletes don't run, you know, at World Record paces out of nowhere. It's not just natural talent. So then the question becomes, what are you doing every day? What is your practice? And so for me, so much of the practice of the score that I'm keeping has to do with? Do I take time to self-reflect, am I humble enough to take feedback from others? Do I have a coach? The answer is yes, I have a coach, I had a therapist, I continue to work with people to develop myself because I didn't come into this world that full born and I'm still a work in process. And I think it's so important for all of us to consider the scoreboard and then what is the practice that you want to develop that is going to help you to achieve the score that you are aiming for. 29:22 Gaurav: Thank you, Alain, for bringing that because what I'm listening right now is what are those measures, What are those parameters based on which I tend to evaluate myself? What are those filters that I have created for myself through which I look at so-called success? So you also spoke about you brought in the analogy of being kind, you brought in the importance of being reflected in the conversation. Now, in the context of leadership. On one hand, we have leaders like Nelson Mandela's of the world we have leaders like Donald Trump's in the world, we have leaders like Putin, we have leaders like the Dalai Lama in the world, all of them are leading in their respective ways. And all of them are producing some phenomenal results in their own ways. What do you think? What's that one difference that makes all the difference? And here I'm bringing in Donald Trump, I'm bringing in Nelson Mandela and bringing in Martin Luther King, I'm also bringing him Osama bin Laden because if you look at the world, through the eyes of Osama bin Laden, I'm sure he would have checked all the boxes that says I am successful. What is the difference that makes all the difference? 30:41 Alain: So when, I just want to be clear, when you say, what is the difference that makes a difference? Can you just clarify that question? Because I don't want to code. So what what, 30:50 what, what differentiates one from the other? Is it the kindness parameter? Is it the reflective Keramik parameter? What is that? 31:00 No, I think the difference, what is the difference that makes a difference? I think it is their values, right? And so the fact is, values become this guiding Northstar, by which they kind of guide us towards. And the thing is, different people can value different things to achieve a different result. Let me give you an example by that. So let's just I'll use Nelson Mandela and Donald Trump. Different, pretty different leaders, right. So when Nelson Mandela makes the incident, some people have heard the story about you know, after he spent all the time in prison on Robben Island, and he comes back and the rugby team, the national rugby team comes and he decides, you know, there's a big contention because it's, you know, a question and they've done books about this in the movies about this. There's a big contention of does he should he just close the rugby team down, which is a big pride in the white South Africans, he realises No, that's going to create conflict. Now what he's trying to get to is unification. And so he's willing to humble himself for the long-term picture and what he realises and by doing so the result that he wants to get is for people to come together. And the result of that is going to create is for him to on a personal level, it's going to create a sense of ego gratification, because, you know, we can be of service. But you know, fact is, I get something out of being of service, I'm not completely selfless. My values say that being of service is great. And that actually gives me this warm chemicals in my brain start releasing all the dopamine and the oxytocin. Right, oxytocin starts to release so that I get all that so if I'm Nelson Mandela, I'm getting all that through service through the value of unification. Now, if I'm Donald Trump, I want those warm, fuzzy feelings too, but because of the way that I've brought up the way that my brain is wired, and because of the reinforcement that I've got, for me, dominating people, cutting people off, having my way, you know, they had things like, you know, throwing a tantrum, these are all things, I need to be in control. And my son, he's got very different values, which create very different beliefs, which create very different stories about what's going on, which create very different behaviors, both trying to create a result that creates something, but you know, it's like they've been constructed may be out of the same genetic, basic, primal materials, but the combination is mixed up in a completely different way. So I'd say the difference boils down to what do you value? And I think it's important for all of us to take some time to reflect on what are my values. And are the values that I'm currently living ones that I truly embrace, or these ones that maybe I've inherited, whether that's from family, society, friends, and I think part of it is do we have the courage to put those values up in the mirror and go, that one fits? I don't need that one anymore. That's not really about me. And again, I think this journey continues, it goes on and on. So am I willing to let go of certain values? Or other ones because they're not serving me? So to me, it comes down to values. Yeah. 34:05 Gaurav: So Alain, interestingly, I've been debating on this for quite some time with different people. You know, every time when I speak to people from different religions, from different sects from different cultures, a common thread that I get is what you're talking about. And yet, when I shift my perspective, what is visible to me is very different. Let me share this example with you. I will stop something back. I was talking to somebody from Britain. And we were talking about Bhagat Singh, Bhagat Singh is considered to be a martyr in India. And when I was talking to this gentleman from Britain, he said ho! I didn't know that I said, Tell me more about that. He said, I thought that Bhagat Singh was a terrorist. I said tell me about that. He said, we have got books written about the history between India and Britain, and what I realised, Bhagat Singh was a terrorist and shift to the India the history books written in India Bhagat Singh is considered, he is a martyr for us. Another example, every time when I am when I used to go and deliver programmes in Kashmir, people would say somebody has come from India. And from here I'm going to Kashmir, and that's a land where there's a lot of division going on. There's a lot of fights going on arguments going on between India and Pakistan, and just trying to elevate the conversation and I'll come back to the value part, which is extremely important. I'm a believer that values and purpose is what differentiates the context is what differentiates Osama bin Laden from Nelson Mandela. However, when I'm saying is, so we are foreigners in on the land of Kashmir. From their perspective, from our perspective, I'm just dabbling between one place to another just a matter of boundary. And that to state boundary, that's one part of it. Is value the only difference or what because if value, the only difference, I am sure, Osama bin Laden would have been very, very kind, very, very kind to his own people. I am sure there must be high amount of integrity in those sects, whom we label as terrorists. Then where is the division? Am I making sense? And my question? 36:37 Alain: Yeah, you are, you know, I think what it comes down to I mean, part of where the values get reinforced, come through the stories that we tell right, like you said, a great example is, you know, history textbooks in India, history textbooks in the United Kingdom, right. So, and of course, as we assimilate stories, the nature of stories is that we tend to, we don't know, if I'm in school, I don't go, is this story true or not, I sort of take it at face value, and I internalise that story. And it becomes a part of my core beliefs, especially if we get them at a young age, right. And so it's so easy. This is why I think we get these cultural blind spots and these beliefs that get very intractable because the stories are in us, and we don't we so it's very challenging to question stories, especially if questioning stories means that we now have to question the tribe that we are a part of the community that we're part of, because if I question this, does that mean that I'm starting to detach myself from my current tribe? And right, you think about that, I mean, they talked about in the ancient classic times of like, Greek, Greek times, Roman times, like the worst thing that could happen to you was not death. It was exile, right? Because we depended on each other. We lived in small bands of 100 and 150 people. And if you were exiled from your community, it was like death. You know, so the sense of, are we willing to question beliefs, values, stories that might have us start to distance ourselves from people. And so that's hard work. It's hard work to do that. And I know that I continue to look at some of those stories for myself. Yeah. 38:15 Yeah. You know, let me bring another perspective. And I would love to hear from you. There is this gentleman. His name is Hari Bhakti, Hari Bhakti is a very dear friend, a very senior lawyer based out of Mumbai. He's doing some great work in the space of sustainability I 38:35 would love to hear your views on how do we integrate values and sustainability together, why because most of the organization's they are sticking to values and they are producing products and services, which is not good for the environment in the long run. And yet in those organisations, we have got those values of respect, compassion, kindness, yeah, however, but for a very small community of people that they are working with. And on the other hand, if you look at different papers, different researchers are saying that in next 40 years, the whole humanity will be going to some really difficult time because of the climate condition. How do you fit in on one hand, we are talking about kindness. People are kind of different organisations, they are high on integrity, high on honesty, and get in the long run. We are not taking care of the long-term sustainability. Same value, which is working in a small community of people. Same value is working in an organisation for our country, but it's not working for the longer-term impact. It's not working for different countries. It's not working for the world. Yeah, where's the balance? What is the day between the thought the best business leaders and Osama bin Laden if there is any? 39:57 Alain: Yeah, well, this is I Appreciate that we've, we've gone off into the deep end of the pool here. It's great question. Wow, this is so here's my take on this, you know, and one of my favourite quotes in relationship to this comes from the Nobel Prize winner Daniel Kahneman, who wrote Thinking Fast and Slow. And he says that, you know, we are blind to our own blindness, right, is that we don't recognise how blind we are. And I think this is the nature of humanity and something that we have to overcome. Let's go back to the stories that we tell and the stories that we believe are true. The fact is one of the stories that we have been telling, I'll say, collectively, and I'll say in the kind of, cuz I live in the West, so I will say, like, the Western organisational world, is that, too, you know, we can have these values and we can succeed at, you know, with a profit and loss and having a successful company. And, you know, have these values, like you said, of kindness, integrity, and fairness. And a part of the story that we have been blind to, is that in order for us to have been successful as we have for at this point, it's well over 100 years, what we have been doing systematically, is we have been externalising a number of costs, right? So there's a number of like, so the fact is when Monsanto develops their pesticides to increase crop yields, right, they just look at okay, here's the yield, like say 10, and corn, and now you can yield 100 corn, right? So it's 10 times more to look at the benefits, and we can measure all the many benefits, but we don't measure. Okay, so what's the chemicals doing to the groundwater? How is that polluting this for the next right, all these things? Same thing with the exhaust? I think it's a good example is where is the exhaust pipe on a car? It's behind you, right? It's sort of like, it goes back there. And I'm going forward. And so like, I think our world of progress has been like we're driving a car. But we're blind to the fact that on the back end of us, which is kind of like the waist, right, is this exhaust, and we don't realise that the exhaust is actually part of our whole system. And so to me, and I think you have a few brave, courageous, both leaders within organisations and in some governments are going, we can no longer externalise these costs, you know, we cannot do this. I mean, I love what's going on around some of the work around climate change, where people are realising we can't do this, and what is that going to leave? And I think for most people, because the effects are not you, again, it's one it's like a lot of things in life, if you don't see the instant result right now, it must not exist, right? It's like, oh, well, you know, and I recognise this to for myself, you know, I look at my own carbon footprint. And I think, like, what can I do? What can I offset? I mean, if I was true to truly all of these values, maybe I wouldn't ever get in a car again. Right? And then I think, well, how would that work? How would that live? And I know some people that choose to do that, or some people who never get on a plane, they just by principle, and I applaud that, and what can we do? Or and it's such a big problem that I think what ends up happening is people easily, myself included, at times just get overwhelmed by the problems like, and then, you know, what are we willing to do? And what are the things? What are the gonna be the big levers that can make a change? And I think those are difficult questions that have been being asked. I mean, look, when Jimmy Carter was president, The United States, they put solar panels on the roof of the White House. Yes, yeah, 50 years ago. And then Reagan came in and took them down and said, It's morning in America. And, you know, so we've had these issues have been in the mainstream dialogue for a long time. But they're big, and they're complicated. And they're not politically expedient, right? Because the fact is, what it means is you have to do some short term, in the short term, you have to invest for things people like, Wait, why are we spending money on this? I'd rather, you know, and so unfortunately, people focus on the short term and for politicians who want to get elected again, doing it the other way around, feels like political suicide. Right. And so, a big question, I think, it goes back to the fact that we are blind to our own blindness. So, hope that answers your question a bit. So. 44:17 Gaurav: What a beautiful analogy that you have used Alain, the analogy of exhaust pipe, and I think the words which are coming to me right now is coaching is definitely not linear. Yeah, the cause and effect does not work when you're working with human beings. Gratification is suicidal. And there is no short-term solution to when we are looking for and when we are looking forward to handle and deal with challenges in the ecosystem. Is it a fair assumption to make? 45:00 Alain: Yeah, I think absolutely. It's a fair. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's, there's so much complexity here. There's so much complexity and human brain doesn't do well with complexity, right? We tend to want, like, I can only really focus on one thing by my optical nerves can only work on one thing at a time. And so when you get to complexity, all these different levels, it starts literally overwhelmed by sensory, yes. And I tend to shut that down. So I think the assumption is, it's very fair to make for sure. 45:27 Gaurav: Let's take one step forward. And let's bring this up since most of the leaders here, I don't think that we are dealing with anything which is beyond one organisation two organisation, there are leaders I can see who are on the boards of several organisation, but I don't think that there is anybody who is dealing with geopolitical scenarios, geopolitical challenges. So let's bring it down to 10,000 feet above ground. Today, I got somebody he said, Gaurav I'm looking forward to one of the biggest challenges that the organisation is facing today is to hire, recruit, retain, help people grow in an organisation, the challenge is we are not been able to retain. What is the quick fix? How can we do that? How can we handle that challenge? What's your take on that? 46:10 Alain: Well, first of all, notice what notice the assumption that's baked into the question, what is the quick fix? Yeah, so. So that was the exact 46:19 question. Mr. Singh asked me. And that’s the reason I did not have an answer. Of course, I had an answer. But I don't think that landed well for him. But you asked me, Is that the best answer? I know, I think that that's the best answer. I know. And I'm grounded into conviction. I think that's the best possible way. But I'd love to hear from you. What's your take on that? How can we hire retain people for the long-term growth of an organisation? 46:48 Alain: Yeah, I think what it comes down to is, if you're looking to hire and engage and then retain people in an organisation, you have to think about what is the organisation that they're going to spend their time in, which leads me to culture and cycle? So what is the culture that you have created? And that how can you create a culture that is so attractive? That it by nature, attracts people who want to stay, who wants to do good work, who don't want to leave? And, you know, the tendency, I think, you know, a lot of people think that we have to look at our employee engagement, we have to look at, you know, and I think that is the wrong question. And it's the wrong direction. It's, you know, the only way to engage employees, is to engage leaders, and for leaders to realise it is up to us to create the culture in which people are going to thrive in which people are going to be attracted to retain, to be productive to engage. And if you think about that, and I asked, oftentimes, when I'm working with leaders, you know, I'll say, when you think about the word engagement, outside of employee engagement, and all that, when you think about the word engagement in life, where do we tend to use the word engaged? And of course, the answer, Herman says, When you get married, right, before you get married, you get engaged. And if I was to ask someone to like to be engaged with them to be married, what am I really saying? What I'm really saying is, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, right? In the, in the institution of marriage. So what we're saying is, I want to spend time, attention, and focus on You. And I think, unfortunately, there's so many organisational cultures, where people are, you're in, here's your desk, here's your laptop, good luck, see, goodbye, you know, and then we're too busy. Because really what we all want to be seen, all of us as human beings at a core level, going back to human values, is we need to feel like we're part of something we're mammals by design, we're not meant to be, you know, again, you want to exile people, you put people in solitary confinement, these are the worst punishments we can do. And so what are you doing to when you engage people, that means I am going to spend time in you, I'm going to care about you, I'm gonna see you, I'm gonna value and respect you. And you think about what do great coaches do, like part of the coaching? You know, in the ICF, we talk about the coaching mindset and coaching presence. It's around I am, you know, if if, let's say we were in a coaching session right now, and I was checking my phone and doing my email, I was coaching you, not a very good relationship I'm building. And so I think it's important for us to ask, What am I doing to create a culture where people feel seen, recognised, valued, and yeah, we want to get good work done, too. But the challenge in so many organisations is we tend to be so scoreboard-focused, right, the numbers focused. And one of the things I often coach people on and leaders around is that you actually realise the numbers, those performance numbers, whether that's sales, revenue, quality, whenever you pick your numbers in whatever organisation, those numbers are just a reflection of the behaviour of people like sales don't sell themselves. There's a salesperson that sold something. And so we have to stop being so numbers focused and be a bit more people focus because if we prioritise we're not going to forget about the numbers we know we have a business to run, but we need to prioritise the people first, because if we prioritise the people Will the people will actually take care of the numbers. And I think part of the reason that people don't prioritise people is because people are messy by nature, people don't show up the same way every day. The fact is, numbers are much more distinct every day, I know the number seven will always be more than six and always less than eight. And there's something that's safe about that. So for many leaders, they can sit in their offices, look at the spreadsheet, see the performances, how things are coming in, and be okay with that. And so, I think, to go back to answering your question, I think it comes back to the willingness to recognise that working with people in an interpersonal environment, it's up to me as a leader to create a culture that people want to be in. 50:45 And I hear you, I see you, I feel you. And yet, I'm in a reflective space, that for as long as I have read the management books, for as long as I have led, read leadership books or books on coaching, people have been talking the same thing is that how will you engage with people? How will you care for people? How well do you connect with people? And yet, and yet, if you look at where we are right now, is where we were 20 years back, where we were in the industrial age. Then also we were talking about how to engage people. Today also, we are talking about how to engage people, the mental wellness core is continues to deteriorate with all the literature, all the researchers that have gone that is saying otherwise. What do you think? What is coming in the way of people to implement the simple concept of engaging, connecting with people at the deepest possible level where people can engage with each other where people can express themselves from their true strengths, where people are able to connect with each other, and they will be able to contribute? For the larger good? 52:07 It is still happening. And I think what is getting in the way? Is our right, how do I say this best? I think what's getting in the way, is, frankly, our central nervous systems. And what let me explain what I mean by that. I think what is getting in the way is we without a lot of what I would consider very challenging, difficult work to change patterns to change neurological patterns of how people behave, we are very much predestined to repeat the patterns of behaviour that the previous generation did. And so let me ask everyone who's on the webinar right now? Did you grow up? Because again, we talk about, you know, the United States is a democracy and like, you know, and you think about most organisations are not democracies, right? Most companies are not democracies, most families are not democracy. So the question I have for everyone here, and I'll be honest with you, and I'll ask you, to be honest with yourself, too, is in your family of origin. Did you have someone who was bigger and older than you basically use power to say you need to do this, because I said so. And some variation, and that, and the level of intensity could have been anywhere from this big to screaming, shouting, beating you, right? And just think about that. And just think about how your nervous system responded to power struggle. Right. So if you've had that experience, which I talked to a lot of people, I'd say the overwhelming majority of us have had that experience of power struggle, and what it feels like to be powerless in that situation is hardwired into us, because it happened from the time we're babies. And again, things that happen before we become, you know, age of seven and eight, that just becomes a part of who we are. And so we can talk about and again, I hear what you're saying that hasn't changed. I want to challenge that. I know it hasn't changed over. But look at some of the conversations that we're having now that we weren't having even five years ago, 10 years ago, things around mental health in the workplace. We weren't having these conversations, conversations around diversity, equity inclusion, we weren't having these conversations 10 years ago, conversations around emotional intelligence. We weren't having those conversations 15 years ago. And so that piece is moving slowly. However, you think about the power struggle. And so what ends up happening is if we've had that, do this because I said so because I'm your dad, that's why, you know, and so like, so guess what, when I get to be in a role where I have some power, I go ahead and repeat exactly what was done to me unless I stop and go. That kind of behaviour stops with me. And I mean, from my own experience, it takes a lot of work because there is a momentum that is like we're going downhill. It's so much easier just to stick on the neural pathways of that course, to stop that is so challenging. I think this at a human level and I think it takes an amazing amount of courage and passion. patience and humility. Because what it means is you can no longer go and resort to the same bag of tricks that other people use. You have to, it's much more compelling. And all this. And I share this all because, you know, on a very personal level, my wife, Romain, and I, you know, she remembers growing up in a family where until she described it until the age of five, like she could do no wrong, she was the apple of her father's eye, right. And it's like, and it was like this wonderful thing. And somehow at around five or so these expectations kind of kicked in where her father was like, you need to do this. And then the power struggle came in and she viscerally remembers, he said, If I ever become apparent, I will never parent in that way. That is just wrong. And I don't know about you. But for me, I've blocked all of that, like for whatever the trauma was to be, I have blocked those kinds of memories out. But she hasn't she remembered them. And so when we came time to having children, our children are now 18 and 15, she was very clear on that. And I've watched her and she has been my role model, I'd love to say that I'm great at it. Everything I've learned, I've learned from her around this, and she's much better than it. And what I've seen is it takes an exquisite amount of patience, and perseverance, and a willingness to sacrifice one's own needs to take care of, you know, in this case, a developmentally challenged person, because a two-year-old is developing a three-year-old is developing. And so how many of us have that willingness to be that much of service to be that much of patience to have things take that much longer than he would, let's face it, to say do this in the short term, you get compliance, but what you don't get is commitment. And I think that's true with families. I think it's true with employees. And so I think where it comes down to is this neurological wiring of where we are, and that it's very hard to unwind power and power struggle. 56:51 Sort of beautiful reflection. And thank you for bringing that. In my mind. I'm just repeating that how recent in the last 15-20 years, we have started to talk about equality, we have started to talk about emotional intelligence. And yes, you know what, it has been in the system for several decades, centuries, but not in the way that people are able to relate to it right now. I'm sure. Equality has been a concept in Islam, as much as it has been in Christianity in Hinduism or Sikhism. In fact, Guru Nanak Devji, 500 years back, spoke about equality and how it's so important to let go of different cast different religion, where he challenged the different rituals that Hindus and Muslims used to believe 500 years back, and he said that how it's so important to give respect to women 500 years back, I'm talking about. And yet, I think the way people understand that today, it's very, very different. So that's one I'm listening. Right. The other thing that you mentioned about the destined part, I think, I am so much in love with you with that, because we believe we have choices. But the question that I asked myself is, did I have the choice to born in the context where I'm born into? Right, the afro Americans, I don't think that they behave exactly the way white American behave, their relationship with dogs is very different from the dog, the relationship that whites would have with dogs. Where's it coming from the epigenetic that we have been speaking about? The pain that's coming from one generation to another that we have been talking about, do we have a way to navigate our path from that? I really don't know. Now, the word the only word which is coming to me right now is the awareness part. And I think that's where I'm going to bring in and bring in the concept of bringing coaching and leadership together. What's your take on that? The coaching conclave 2022 is coming, we are going to explore the concept of how coaching can be used to help people get over their reactive patterns, which are self destructive in nature. How can a coach assist a leader to get over this trauma that has been given to him that has been passed to him from generations to generations? The those reactive patterns which are not serving Him to self destructive patterns, which are not serving him, what do you think what is the role of a coach in allowing this leader to become a leader who is very inclusive, who is emotionally mature, who is willing to let go of patterns which are not assisting him or her and create a space where we all can blossom, where we all can have respect? Where we can be a D I could really match could really mushroom? So 59:51 great question. So what can a coach do to help a leader to help him or her to start to unwind some of those patterns so one of the things I think that is so powerful about and this is obviously, assuming that the coach is good, right? So that because there's not necessarily everyone can do this work at that level, is one of the things that coaching offers is, when a leader enters into the coaching space, and they want to be there, they've already set in motion, a willingness to grow, and intention that I'm going to bring something, you know, I often say to my coach is like, well, there's this thing that's going on. And I really don't want to tell you this. So I need to tell you this, right. So I've already had the shorthand of, so it takes courage to do this work. And I think entering into a coaching relationship. And so one of the things that a coach does, is a coach provides safety, right? So a safety because trying to do this work on my own is almost impossible, sometimes, you know, I need support. And so I think what the coach provides is support. And the other thing is, what a good coach does, is, first of all, they as I start to want to try to unwind this, the coach is a witness. And I think there is something that is so powerful about the idea of being seen in my truth for you to be seen in your truth. And just to kind of get that out literally out of our bodies into the world like that, I think begins the healing process already. Okay, so we do that. And then the other thing is that because the coach is not emotionally invested the same way that the leader is, the coach can hopefully see things and reflect and offer observations through questioning, to go and help gently but firmly, you know, challenge, a belief a question and then redirect someone to start to recognise that a lot of things that you are taking as reality are not necessarily objective reality, they're just a way that you have adopted and grown into a belief system, which may or may not be serving you. And it is one thing to recognise that at the intellectual level. But I need for me, and this is why I've been kind of in personal development work for 29 years now is that it's like their layers, more layers keep coming down and down. And that, you know, my ability to function in the world keeps growing. But also I get down to some of these core things at a more core and deep level. So I think what the coach offers the leader, is safety, witnessing, and an ability to help them to redirect and recraft a story to help them in the future. 1:02:32 Thank you so much, Alain, I think what a beautiful conversation it had, other than just reflecting. And just asking myself, when you spoke about being a witness being reflective space. I'm just wondering, what are those biases that I have that might be coming in my way? Every time when I'm coaching? Is it the bias of colour? Is the bias of language? Is it the bias of status quo? Is the is it the bias of creed? Is it the bias of religion? Is it the bias of affluence? Is it the bias of language? Is it the bias of experience? What are those biases that I'm holding on to that's not allowing me to penetrate to explore the truth, that reality of the other person, because if I'm not empty, I don't think that I'll be able to explore that, and allow the other person to look into is the whole reality. So thank you so much. Let's let's look at ladies and gentleman just wondering if you were to describe this conversation. In one word, what would you say just start typing them in the chat box. And Alan, always such a pleasure listening to you. I love your analogies. I love your experience. And I love the gravitas that you bring in your voice. 1:04:01 It's an honour. It's a pleasure, my friend. I look forward to when we get to meet in person one day, 1:04:06 looking forward to. 1:04:08 Yes, Senator put the word deep. I would agree. I like and I have to thank you for the questions because you know, your willingness to ask these difficult complex life is complex. And I appreciate the opportunity for us to swim in the deep end of the pool here. So thank you very much. And thank you all for being so engaged through this. I mean, numerous things came in through the chat. I'm gonna thank you all for being so engaged and I hope that you're able to take some ideas and and to be willing to hold up that mirror to yourself. So thank you. 1:04:37 Fantastic. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. I'm just curious how many of you are really excited by the just to tell you, Ellen is coming and speaking at the coaching conclave 2022 which is starting on 23rd of September. Just curious how much you're really excited. Just type yes in the chat box. Just type yes in the chat box. If you're really excited about the coaching conclave 2022 Quickly Quickly, quickly, super now, let me just quickly take you through what you can expect from that. And we are going to stop this conversation and we're going to quickly take you through that what is it that you can expect, as I mentioned is the biggest coaching conclave. In the world now, right, we are growing with every passing year, we are getting better, we are bringing better speakers. And it's only going bigger and bigger. And compressing every aspect of human transformation. That's what we're going to talk about. This is what you can expect from the conversation you will if you're a coach or a leader, or if you are a practising coach or mentor. This is a place where you can actually get wealth of wisdom and experiences right as I mentioned, the 51 hours of coaching marathon, listen to 70 plus master coaches avail 58% 58 cc units access to different courses, all the record recording sessions will be available. And what you can expect on day one and two is primarily we are going to talk about how can we educate people on coaching? And how can we evangelise coaching because on one hand, we are talking about the importance of coaching. At the same time, I don't think that we as collective collectively as a community, we are doing enough and more work to evangelise coaching in the world. And in case we don't do that, I don't think that we will be able to do justice because unless people know about coaching, they will not want to swim in the ocean as Elon was talking about. And they too, we are going to take one step forward and where we are going to engage and explore what are those opportunities? What are those tools that could help you to one build your coaching practice and take your coaching practice at a deeper level. And that's where we are going to enjoy that's the day three where we are going to further engage further, we are going to further explore where we can actually take our coaching journey to the next level, build our coaching practice reach out to more people, you know, let them let people experience what it is all about. At the end of the three, at the end of day three, we promise you you will have enough and more material to keep referring back to Of course I know you will not be able to attend 51 hours of coaching conference right. In that case, what could you do? You can I think definitely we will be providing you the recording, you can definitely revisit that, where we have people like Atlanta, we have got people like Dr. Melvin Atkinson and I'll just take you through all the people who are going to speak at this few of the best leaders I've personally known in the last 10 years, 15 years in the space of coaching are coming together just to share their wisdom just to share their experiences with all of us and why should we stay to stay away from that right. These are the people who are coming together and there are so many people who have been common friends and colleagues coming John is coming and we have had the pleasure of sharing some stages, some platforms, some awards with these friends. Right, Rajiv is coming, Merlin is coming. And all these people if you look at ladies and gentlemen, they are accomplished in their own ways, shape and form. Melon is one of the pioneers when it comes to cold coaching. Oleg is one of the finest thought leaders I know of John, a very dear friend, author of several books, David, you know, have written 75 books. Can you read that? I mean, he's 75. And he's written 75, really, Rajeev to be a very well known name in the country. People like Matt, Kevin, all these people are authors. They are speakers, they have done some really good work in the space of coaching. But the interesting part is, most of the people that you're looking at here, they're not coaches by choice. So they're not coaches by chance. They are coaches, because of their choice. It's just that they made a conscious effort to invest their time, energy and money into that. And they said that you know what, I think that we would like I would like to become a coach. I remember my conversation with Matt Parker, who has worked for almost like 25 years in an IT organisation moved up the ladder, and one point days, I think there's something missing and came up with a book called radical collaboration or radical enterprise, where he talks about how can you collaborate in a competitive environment when you are just sitting in front of people and coding? How can two software designers software coders can come together work on a common screen and collaborate? I mean, really, what kind of radical ideas these people are bringing, and that's what they're going to share Richard Sheridan, amazing leader, Jerry colonna, and author of a book called reboot. 1:09:28 All these people are coming together ladies and gentlemen, there are three different pieces to that. The one is the basic one address one and the pro one. And in case you have not yet enrolled is a special offer that we are offering. And if you look at, it's not about secure if you ask me, Is it a business for me? Absolutely not. The idea is to evangelise coaching. All the money that we get we actually invest on the technology platform we invest on marketing, we invest on bringing people from different parts of the world right. And this is what we are doing if you look at the $59 is also like $60 if not more than 14 1000 rupees, right. And that kind of money you would be investing in one time me in India forget about when you want the US because I don't think that you will get a meal at $60 in the US. So that is what you will be getting all the things that we look at you're getting CCE unit. So we will be buying si SI units from ICF. So all the links are already there in the chatbox. Ladies and gentlemen, if you just look at the chat box, if you're not yet registered, my sincere request is just click on the link. It's there. So if I may request my team to put the link in the chat box, the link is already there, just click on the link. And I look forward to have you there are three different plants their basic plan, advanced plan and to plan just click on the plan that you would like to take in case you're looking for CC units depending upon if you're looking for 40 cc units, you will get that in the advanced in case you're looking for 51 cc units, you will get 58 cc units you will get the pro level ladies and gentlemen. It's a special offer and a humble request. Because once we come together, we'll be able to take this journey to the next level. So thanks so much, everyone, the link is already there, just click there. And do let us know how best we can serve you how best we can assist you in this journey. And then thank you so much my friend. So looking forward to have you here. 1:11:15 My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much. And thank you all. Thank you 1:11:18 anything that you may want to share with people. What are you going to talk about at the conference, anything special that you would like to talk about what love to hear from? Yeah, 1:11:27 well, I know, we're going to be talking a lot about kind of some of the similar themes of coaching and leadership and curiosity and just the importance of humility. And we're going to talk about a lot of these themes. But as you can see, there's so much to unpack. So we'll continue on in that conversation moving forward. And for those that are, you know, I'd be happy to continue the conversation if you want to follow me or connect with me on LinkedIn, I'd love to be able to support you on your leadership journey. I do a lot of publishing there as well. And if I can be of support that's obviously grew up and I we I think we're brothers from another mother sometimes grownups. Thank you. Thank you very much like so. We're both we're both here to serve and thank you I'm really looking forward to September with you thanks 1:12:07 Thank you Alan. Always a pleasure listening to you and genuinely appreciate this connection. Thank you so much. 1:12:14 Thanks take care take care Thanks. 1:14:37 Look around you. You will see everybody moving. Everybody is on a search both on the outside and the inside. Knocking on unanswered doors trying to look into empty places. When you are in to sense the true false of life. It's time to put a stop to the mindless wandering to change the narrative to see what is seeking you to get in touch with John to 1:15:15 to discover your true essence. The moment they all have been waiting for is here now. biggest annual event is it's back. Expanding from the realms of conscious connection, expression and contribution. 1:15:48 The longest coaching marathon invites you to take it to the next level with DCC 2020 to tap into the true essence of coaching oops, life 3x The endgame with DCC 2022. It's about coaching. It is you